Episode V.IV – Another’s Sorrow
Join us as we discuss Another’s Sorrow
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8th October 2021 @ 8:03 pm
I didn’t remember much about this episode other than Morgana was easily spot-able as the old lady. I do wish Mithian was more intense. I really liked her in the other episode but this incarnation of it left me shrugging. I must admit that I don’t watch the episodes before listening to your discussions. But usually your take jogs my memory so it’s fine.
9th October 2021 @ 4:40 pm
so easily spottable!!!!
21st September 2021 @ 12:28 am
Sorry I’m so late. I apologise and completely understand if you cannot take into account any of my comments. Life and new job suddenly became overwhelmingly busy.
In terms of all of season 5, this is, in my opinion, one of the most watchable episodes. I like going back to it. It’s got a lot of classical fairy tale elements, involves a quest and generally provides a good canvas for the characters to shine and develop and prove themselves. It’s a great episode to actually show off Arthur’s kingship instead of just talking about it. Also: Merthian…
I think Katie really does an excellent job acting old Morgana. With Hilda, Morgana’s character is still the same whereas Colin does not act Dragoon as the same character as young Merlin. (I have voiced my frustrations about this so I won’t again.) The only thing that always makes me smile is the ‘old Marty McFly’s mother’ voice that Lea Thompson put on in Back to the Future and Katie McGrath also seems to adopt. To my ears, it sounds hilariously fake but then it’s easy to critique when I’m not the one doing it. Anyway, I don’t know whether Katie used that film as a reference but it certainly sounds as if she did.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that this season Merlin seems to suffer from some form of jaw paralysis? I don’t know, but the way Colin delivers his lines constantly reminds me of someone clenching their jaw or biting their teeth. Perhaps it’s deliberate? Merlin is more restrained, more bitter, more frustrated?
I love how we contrast Morgana and Mithian in this episode. Mithian who, as we’ve said in 4.11, is basically the perfect princess. And so was Morgana – but now she has gone through so much and has become so fanatical that she is willing to put up with painful transformations and sleeping with her head on the table (while Mithian takes the bed) instead of the luxury she was used to having in this very castle. Morgana has come a long way from the time when Uther first clapped her in manacles in the dungeon for the night and she was so mortally offended that she was going to deliver him to Tauren to be murdered. (Okay, the dungeon and the murder of Gwen’s father.)
I do not understand Gwen’s shoulder-less dress. I really don’t understand why. It’s not practical; it looks stiff and uncomfortable; it’s not historically accurate and no one else wears a similar dress. Can someone explain the design of Gwen’s dress?
Also, how have you not discussed the beautiful and crystal-clear foundations for some Merthian shipping in your podcast? It’s all in the episode – just look at Merlin and Mithian staring at each other, understanding one another without words. 😀 And the way Merlin notices the ‘fear in her eyes’ and tells Gaius that this is not the Mithian he knows. And Mithan goes to him for help and not to anyone else. Oh, I can just imagine that they’ve secretly been writing really sweet letters to each other all this time with Merlin obliviously encouraging her that she will one day find someone who will love her as much as Arthur loves Gwen and Mithian ostentatiously flirting with Merlin, enjoying the fact that he doesn’t seem to get it and so she can continue being ever more frank about her growing feelings. <3 <3 <3 Sorry – this is the last episode with Mithian in it; you must allow me some Merthian shipping glee. (There is a great Merthian fanfiction which I have re-read several times which takes this episode as the beginning and develops a Merthian AU from there. Let me know if you want a link.)
I also like that Gaius gets an outing – I think the last time he was out of the castle was in the Lamia episode and that was over three years ago! And we’ve discussed before how out-of-the-castle Gaius seems to be the best Gaius. But then, is he? Unfortunately, Gaius in this episode is very much again the plot device of ‘Oh no, I’m sure it’s all fine.’ and ‘Don’t tell Arthur’ and ‘Device to rescue Merlin so that he can be in peril but still on time to save the day.’
Although the entire scene with Mithian’s escape and re-capture by Morgana in the castle is odd and pointless, I do think this is the first time in Merlin that we have a conversation between three females. I don’t think it quite makes the Bechdel test because they still discuss Rodor and Arthur but at this point I take anything I can get. At the same time, the scene makes me realise that these are pretty much the only female characters we have in the series. That’s it. Three – and that’s only because Janet Montgomery guest-stars. If this was Leon, Merlin and Arthur there’d be a dozen other men out there. But this conversation between three women is sadly, also the conversation between the ONLY three women. Until the end of the episodes. Then there were two… (Out of interest, I also checked the other scenes between just Morgana and Mithian for the Bechdel test as well but the only scene that might qualify is the few seconds after Merlin leaves Mithian’s room and Morgana threatens Mithian not to test her as she would not enjoy the consequences. Does that count as a ‘conversation’ that would pass the test though?)
It’s a little sad that there was a hint last season that Merlin was growing into quite a competent physician but here he cannot immediately tell scalding marks from marks left by a rope on Mithian’s wrists! And also, that’d be a thing to tell Arthur. That’s fool-proof evidence, that is!
The loss of Gwaine’s original (or any) character is so painfully obvious in the scenes where he and Merlin run to catch up with Arthur and Mithian. If this was season 3, there’d have been a lot of jokes and quips and while I understand that this was meant to be a scene showing Merlin taking charge, I doubt it would have destroyed everything if we’d had a few witticisms between them. Poor Gwaine.
I think Bradley James is just so, so great in the Tomb of the King scene. I especially like the kind of nod he gives when Odin tells him that his time has come. Arthur nods as if he gives his approval or blessing to the statement, thereby maintaining both his dignity and authority as a king which not even being captured by hostile soldiers and preparing for his execution can rob from him. It also brings home once again how at peace and prepared Arthur must be every single day to face death if it is required of him, how he has factored it into his reign and life as a natural price he will have to pay at some point.
21st September 2021 @ 2:17 pm
[standing on chair and frantically waving arms] me! Me! Would love a link to merthian fanfiction pweeease 😆
21st September 2021 @ 3:52 pm
Me too! <3
21st September 2021 @ 10:17 pm
Here you go! Enjoy and let me know what you think once you’re done. 😊
https://archiveofourown.org/works/31340237
23rd September 2021 @ 1:49 pm
Hope the new job is good though, not just overwhelming and busy!!
–I don’t know whether Katie used that film as a reference but it certainly sounds as if she did.–
Katie is a self professed nerd and an uber geek, so it wouldn’t at all surprise me if that was (consciouos or not) the reference!
–Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that this season Merlin seems to suffer from some form of jaw paralysis?–
I don’t know about the whole seasons, but there are scenes where both Colin and Bradley’s dialogue is super slured, so I just assumed it was another fun filming day in freezing cold Wales, and didn’t think much further on it. Definitely gonna keep an eye on lockjaw Merlin going forward though lol
— sleeping with her head on the table (while Mithian takes the bed) —
i totally take your comparison between the two of them, however the sleeping on the table… I always assume that was just to indicate that Morgana fell asleep while on watch? Considering she’s the only one with mithian and Mithian has proven to be a flight risk. Which does beg the additional question… why doesn’t Morgana magic lock her in the room? Why use a key, and then hold that key in your hand, while you’re keeping watch? Silly Morgana… but yes, totally agree with everything else in your comparison!
oh gosh, doing the Bechdel test on any episode of BBC Merlin seems like a recipe for disaster… =/ I think early episodes where Gwen and Morgana still got to talk to each other are probably your best chance… they don’t always talk about male characters on the show. Sometimes they talk about make up and dresses… :'( :'( :'(
20th September 2021 @ 9:39 am
What a pleasure to read everyone’s thoughts as we get into season 5!
First, let me say that Ruth’s declaration that Merlin is no longer interested in looking for a way to tell Arthur about his magic came as a surprise to me. Oh – I thought. Is that true? It takes me awhile to move on emotionally, so I was (am?) still stuck in the hope that it would happen.
As other’s have pointed out – Merlin is so confident now. Is this in part, why? Because he’s made a firm decision?
But real life has recently confirmed that convincing people who have significant biases (like against magic) to change their mind isn’t done by argument, it’s better done with personal connections and stories. Wouldn’t this be a really effective time to tell Arthur – when Merlin is so much a respected part of the court and Arthur’s life?
As someone else pointed out, the secret between them is felt now more than ever, despite it not being explicitly talked about. It’s all so sad and frustrating!
Second, about the scene where Arthur is choosing to kill or not to kill Odin – I thought it was a replay of his decision to kill the king of Caerleon. That episode ends with Arthur admitting that he made the wrong decision, so Arthur should already know that he’ll choose a different outcome here. That makes Merlin’s speech a bit pointless, but does give Arthur time to have his brain kick in.
A couple of fun bits:
I LOVE Mithian’s traveling outfit. The simple brown cloak matches her long hair and boots. She looks SO pretty!
Mithian’s writing on the rock by the stream is a combination of lower and upper case lettering. MorgANA. I find this annoying, and then it starts me thinking about how difficult it is to scratch words into rocks, so straight lines are more effective than round ones, so maybe that’s why she did it. And to be fair, the lettering is very evenly spaced and legible …………and then I’m out of the story! Argh.
20th September 2021 @ 9:45 pm
“Second, about the scene where Arthur is choosing to kill or not to kill Odin – I thought it was a replay of his decision to kill the king of Caerleon.”
Yes! I agree! I actually don’t think Arthur was going to kill him. I know we are suppose to think that but I don’t feel Bradley played it with enough anger for that. Maybe he would have lopped his ear off or something…haha
23rd September 2021 @ 1:52 pm
cutting off ears is a time honoured tradition! haha
seriously though, no joke, it’s not somewhere BBC merlin could actually go, but injuring warriors to a point where they physically are unable to pose a threat to you and your kingdom was pretty standard I believe… so yeah, he could have just cut his achilles heels or something similar. eww…
23rd September 2021 @ 1:53 pm
–a combination of lower and upper case lettering. MorgANA.–
literally my first thought, before I’d even read the rest of your paragraph, was STRAIGHT LINES hahaha so yeah, I think there is something there, that’s about ease of rock carving… maybe. but I totally get how it knocked you out of the story, as that’s totally the kind of thing I end up obsessing over, too!
M Xx
20th September 2021 @ 5:12 am
This might be my shortest comment yet since I don’t have a lot of time! We will see!
Overall, this episode is not one of my favorites. I am immediately extremely frustrated at Morgana and her motives. Teaming up with Odin is a smart move, but why has it taken her this long? Why the FRECK does she want the throne now? I thought she just wanted “Arthur’s head on a spike”? I prefer a slightly mad and short sighted Morgana who just wants her enemies dead. I don’t understand how no one can recognize Morgana. Like everyone else, I think she is very recognizable. Also, why didn’t Morgana use this disguise as a way of getting into Camelot and then just kill Arthur in his sleep and have Odin’s men surround Camelot or something? I know she promised Odin he could get to kill Arthur, but at this point, does it really matter if she keeps her word or not? How does Merlin not sense Morgana’s magic/presence? He’s suppose to be this great and amazing sorcerer… I just feel like he should sense her powers especially since she is getting so powerful. Or is she so powerful that she can hide her powers? A nice way to incorporate Mordred here would be him coming to Merlin saying he senses Morgana’s presence or something. That would have given Mordred some screen time and maybe cause Merlin to question his reluctance to trust Mordred.
Mithian is the other source of my frustration with this episode. I feel like she could have tried harder to warn someone. She is a princess. She couldn’t request time alone with Arthur and Gwen without her handmaid? Also, last time we saw Mithian, she traveled alone and without a handmaid so shouldn’t that have rung some bells for Merlin??? Or did things change in the three year period we weren’t allowed to see? I like how Mithian tries a couple times to get away, but why doesn’t she start screaming in the hallway?? If it is because of the bracelet, I wish they would have expanded on that more. Is the bracelet controlling Mithian’s actions or does it just cause her pain? I wish Mithian would have caught Arthur’s eye while Morgana was being assessed by Gaius and given him a little head nod to speak in private. I like that Mithian warns Merlin they way she does, but I still don’t understanding why she doesn’t ask to talk with Merlin or Arthur alone. I don’t understand why Merlin doesn’t say “Can I talk with you alone?” or even suggest to Arthur to talk to Mithian alone. That seems like the simplest and straight forward answer to the problem. I mean Morgana posing as a SERVANT! She couldn’t stop royalty speaking alone without breaking character. Mithian also could have whispered “trap” or something when they enter the tomb. I wish I felt her desperation more and saw her take more drastic measures. It would be more satisfying if she just yelled trap or something, but it is too late and that’s when Odin’s men surround. Everything would end up the same, but at least Mithian would come out looking a little braver and Arthur wouldn’t yell at her.
I have asked the question before and I will ask it again…. how far is Merlin willing to let Morgana go before he uses magic to save himself? I mean he would have died just then if no one else was around and without a fight!!! I do not understand this!! Yes, Merlin doesn’t want Morgana knowing he has magic, but him dying at her hands isn’t going to do anyone any good either! He doesn’t even look like he is thinking of using magic to defend himself! Why?!
I get so annoyed when Gaius says “He’s taken a heavy blow to the head” and “He should be fine but who knows when he will wake up.” WHAT? No one is unsettled that Merlin has taken a heavy blow to the head? No one wants to ask questions like HOW did this happen? We know Merlin is a clutz, but he isn’t this bad. Also, how can Gaius say someone “should be fine” after a “HEAVY BLOW TO THE HEAD?” What??
I love how Arthur isn’t thrown by rock falls or earthquakes anymore… He just rolls with it since he’s had years of experience with these well timed, random “natural” events happening in his favor for the past ten years. Oh Arthur, thank God you are pretty. Also, why doesn’t Morgana do anything while the rocks are falling?? A shield spell? Something?? And thank you for pointing out there is no way that Morgana CAN’T know Arthur has a sorcerer on his side when she is flung backwards. I thought the same thing…unless she got a concussion haha.
Few other small comments from my notes:
Leon just sweeps Mithian up into his arms… Never shipped them before but now….
LOVE the new banter:
“Did you just give me an order?”
“Yes, sire.”
“Feels good, doesn’t it?”
“It’s not unpleasant.” ❤
I love the area where they stop to rest with all the pretty wildflowers! It’s sweet Merlin is helping Mithian off her horse, but I can’t help but want it to be Leon here since I was shipping them earlier…
Arthur is always shouting for Merlin. He’s gotta keep tabs on His Merlin…
I, too, wish Merlin didn’t deny Gwaine his hug!
Yes! Percival’s arms!! He just breaks free like a warrior god!
Next episode always hits me in the feels….
20th September 2021 @ 2:04 pm
“He doesn’t even look like he is thinking of using magic to defend himself! Why?!”
Oh I had exactly the same problem with that scene. It could have been remedied easily, for example, Merlin is lifting his hand and about to say the words, but Morgana starts magically strangling him, so he can’t get the words out, etc. I feel like that’s what they’ve been going for, but maybe the scene lacked good direction, so it didn’t come out that way.
“I get so annoyed when Gaius says “He’s taken a heavy blow to the head” and “He should be fine but who knows when he will wake up.” WHAT? No one is unsettled that Merlin has taken a heavy blow to the head? ”
Haha I legit laughed at those words of Gaius, thinking “OF COURSE this show doesn’t care when a character takes a heavy blow to the head” – cue Arthur and all his knocked out scenes, when even Bradley James said in one of the interviews that he’s amazed Arthur is still capable of using his brain 😀
20th September 2021 @ 3:22 am
Like many a episode of Merlin, the overarching plot was a little weak and repetitive with the show’s ranking bumped by individual moments as you say.
The questions of Merlin’s power and character is really interesting to me in this episode. As someone else said earlier, in many scenes, this is the most naturally confident Merlin we have gotten – from advice on leaving Mithian alone, to his calm clear advice to Arthur to not kill Odin, this to me is very much Merlin the Advisor, not Merlin the Servant, in the best way possible, and one of the few demonstrations that things really have evolved in Camelot. I don’t think Colin plays it too staid at the end – I read the scene more that this is just something Merlin knows how to do with ease now. Of course, the glaring hole here is Gaius – he really is the WORST here and i really don’t understand why he was necessary in this episode – did I miss something about why he was needed on the quest? They basically never take him in the woods unless Morgana has temporarily taken over the castle? A very weird throwback to the S1 dynamic which I didn’t need.
I think the last 20 minutes of this episode really elevate it, and my potentially favorite moment is the Merlin earthquake. OMG. I don’t usually get into the magic on this show – as y’all have discussed, its used inconsistently and there is no logic as to what takes more or less power/skill, etc. But when Colin builds up the language, crouches down, and smacks that ground – you can feel the tremors of his power in that earthquake. it is so simple and a total fist punching the air kind of moment for me.
23rd September 2021 @ 2:02 pm
–did I miss something about why he was needed on the quest?–
that.. is a fair point. hmmmm. It feels like there may have been something in draft that was basically ‘Mithian is very weak, and we can’t leave the life of a princess in the hand’s of a physician’s apprentice, so Gaius has to come along’, but then no one bothered to actually put that in the script? lol
19th September 2021 @ 11:37 pm
This episode actually really grew on me, especially the last sequence. I think it’s all really quite neatly presented, it’s just, well, as you said – sticky taped together. But, I think there are some great performances and character beats, so I don’t mind too much. It lands it emotionally for me, and after that being not quite there especially in the last few seasons, I really appreciate it now haha.
Arthur’s “Morgana” and yes, exactly like you say, faint amusement really breaks my heart because it seems like a very subtle parallel to their lost relationship – he slightly shakes his head in the way he might have once done might if they were teasing each other, like they did once upon a time, but much more tired.
Okay so the whole climax of the episode is a really interesting sequence of scenes, I think. I love the brief shot of Merlin following the fight with his eyes, like it’s pure instinct to be ready to intervene if necessary. Interestingly, he doesn’t intervene – well, there’s obviously no need because Arthur is BEAUTIFULLY competent – fightwise and physically, but he does, just like in sins of the father, intervene emotionally. Weirdly, it felt almost unnecessary, or at least inessential to me – Bradley seems to play it as though he’s already there, he doesn’t argue and his expression doesn’t really shift. Or perhaps he just needed reminding, for someone to pull him back in this moment of passion – maybe this is a display of how far he has come from all those years ago.
Just coming off the last episode, it does make sense to have Arthur yell with such emotion that Odin killed his father. It’s a weak link, but I suppose this revenge springs from Uther too – except, this time, it’s in his favour rather than against him. It’s interesting to compare with SotF, as, in line with the destiny we were originally following, Arthur should be growing further away from Uther, and in fairness we did see that last episode. But here, in that moment of vengeance, he almost does exactly for Uther what Uther did for his mother. But, then of course, he pulls back from it and does the right thing. Is this sort of reinforcing his learning to let go of his father last week, or is it implying that he will never really be able to do that – that he will always need Merlin to pull him back? Or that that Merlin is that counterpart of him? – again, with the antagonism to Uther.
This is a complete mash of thoughts haha – I really should learn to write these a bit further from the deadline and not at half eleven where I am😂
Thank you for a great episode!
19th September 2021 @ 6:35 pm
Hi Everyone! Also long-time listener, first-time actually making the deadline to write-in XD Promised I’d make it by Season 5 since it’s one of my favorites for acting reasons.
First of all, while I have the chance, I just wanted to say thank you to Ruth and Michelle for this podcast. I work in a research lab and binge-listening to the first three seasons of Destiny and Chicken for eight hours a day for a week straight is the only thing that got me through painstakingly grinding hundreds of freeze-dried dragonflies into powder for digestion in nitric acid. It actually got to the point that my inner voice began to sound a lot like Ruth discussing my fic ideas, so I had to take a little break, haha, but it was so worth it. I LOVE analyzing the nuances of this show, and I really appreciate all the time and effort you guys have put into continuing the discussion and including everyone in it. Major thanks to you both.
So, every time I watch this episode, I am always struck by how much Merlin has at last decided to firmly own his various roles during the gap – as the king’s personal servant, member of the court, the physician in training, and keeper of Arthur’s destiny. Most of it is due to Colin’s fantastic portrayal of Merlin’s body language and expressions – full of restraint and decorum, but also self-assurance and ruthlessness. When Mithian arrives, he directs Hilda firmly. He tells Arthur to back off Mithian, his patient. In the council chambers, he gracefully and confidently helps Mithian into her chair, not at all uncomfortable to be in such close proximity and touching a princess. Then he stands off to the side, but not at all in the background. In the tomb, he doesn’t think twice about pulling out the big guns and creating a freaking earthquake to save everyone before conveniently blazing in. This Merlin is confident in his various realms of authority and his determination to do whatever needs to be done on his own terms. Not that Merlin hasn’t done that before, but now sneaking behind everyone’s backs is just another tool in his repertoire, and super powerful displays of magic are used from the start instead of as a last resort. It’s as if in the gap, Merlin has decided, alright, it’s time to grow up and step into who- and whatever I need to be to get Arthur where I want him to go.
Also, I don’t know about anyone else, but the way Merlin spoke to Arthur in the end about not killing Odin almost gave me chills. At that moment, it really harkened back for me to the Merlin of Myth – old, prophetic wizard pulling the puppet strings of a young, inexperienced Arthur. Like it was a lesson Merlin was teaching him, not one about mercy and avoiding seeking revenge, but instead about what means will help him achieve the desired end. It was clunky writing since, as mentioned earlier, Arthur should have decided all that on his own anyway. Arthur would have if the episode and characters stopped treating him like he was going on a revenge spree even though he clearly wasn’t. The end result of the scene, I think, significantly weakened the power of what should have been Arthur and Arthur alone’s decision.
Totally love Merlin and Mithian’s chemistry – I’ve been a huge fan of Merlin/Mithian since The Hunter’s Heart. But alas…
Much love guys!
Annabeth
20th September 2021 @ 6:50 pm
Welcome!! I loved your take on Merlin this week – it’s easy to see only how much of a tragic figure he’s become here in Season 5, but actually there’s more to it than that which I don’t always remember! Particularly liked your « Merlin of Myth » comment, as he really does seem to take that advisory role more and more.
– It’s as if in the gap, Merlin has decided, alright, it’s time to grow up and step into who- and whatever I need to be to get Arthur where I want him to go. –
This is so well put – for better or worse, he has indeed decided to throw himself entirely into this destiny here at the end of it!
21st September 2021 @ 3:26 am
Thank you so much for the welcome and your kind words!! It’s amazing to finally talk with real people about my passion for this show without seeming weirdly obsessed haha.
-This is so well put – for better or worse, he has indeed decided to throw himself entirely into this destiny here at the end of it!
How ironic, right? I wonder what S1E1 Merlin would think if he could see himself at this point?
21st September 2021 @ 12:53 am
Most of it is due to Colin’s fantastic portrayal of Merlin’s body language and expressions – full of restraint and decorum, but also self-assurance and ruthlessness. –
I’m just going to agree with Kirsty here but you’ve expressed that really aptly and beautifully. It’s one of those things that I have subconsciously noticed but haven’t been able to put into words. Thanks for doing it for me.
Totally love Merlin and Mithian’s chemistry – I’ve been a huge fan of Merlin/Mithian since The Hunter’s Heart. But alas… –
Yes! Someone to share my Merthian love. There are not many but there ARE fanfictions out there for the likes of us. 🙂 This episode doesn’t have to be the end.
21st September 2021 @ 3:39 am
Thank you too Mary! I really struggled to get my thoughts together on that one, so I’m glad it made sense to someone 🙂
-Yes! Someone to share my Merthian love. There are not many but there ARE fanfictions out there for the likes of us. 🙂 This episode doesn’t have to be the end.
Absolutely! We’re in this together, wandering the Merthian Desert in search of fanfictions. I feel like it was you who commented a list of them on the Fic Rec List a while back? I remember checking it out right away. Maybe we’ll just have to write some of our own!
21st September 2021 @ 10:27 pm
That would probably have been me posting Merthian fanfic, yes.
And oh… I’ve actually got a story all plotted out. In minute detail – if only I had the time… 😊 Maybe one day.
23rd September 2021 @ 2:11 pm
Welcome to the Merlin Madness! Also, I always enjoy hearing when and where people listen to our podcast, and you have definitely won with your grinding up of freeze dried dragonflies anecdote, so thank you for that! hahaha seriously though, glad we could helo out with the lab work 😀
and thank you so much for your thought on merlin in this season, and this episode. lots of food for thought! (not to be digested in nitric acid, though!!) haha
M Xx
19th September 2021 @ 12:08 pm
This is a weird one. Even though it hasn’t been a long time since I’ve seen this season the last time, I couldn’t remember its existence, which is weird because this should be a memorable episode, but it just isn’t.
It tells a huge story, essentially almost starting a war with Camelot’s biggest enemy next to Morgana and getting a truce with said enemy. That’s huge! And yet it doesn’t land because everything is kept to such a small scale and it’s essentially just a rescue mission, which we’ve had many of, and a mole story, which we had way too much of. Morgana as a mole just isn’t exciting anymore. We had an entire season for that! It feels like they ran out of ideas and tried to tie some things up through just recycling a bunch of stuff, which feels so lazy.
And I don’t understand Morgana’s plan at all. She’s inside Camelot, apparently she is super powerful. Just stab Arthur in his sleep? Why go through all that trouble? But Morgana is dramatic like that. I guess at this point I just have to accept it. Just like her not killing Merlin again for some reason.
Such a waste of Mithian as well. She’s such a cool character and almost everything is lost because of the story they gave her. We get glimpses of how cool she was, but it’s a shadow to the Mithian we’ve seen before.
Dreading next weeks episode. I don’t think any episode of Merlin has made me feel as bad and frustrated as that episode. I think it’s my least favourite episode of all of Merlin. Probably going to skip the rewatch to spare myself the pain.
21st September 2021 @ 12:49 am
Dreading next weeks episode. I don’t think any episode of Merlin has made me feel as bad and frustrated as that episode. I think it’s my least favourite episode of all of Merlin. Probably going to skip the rewatch to spare myself the pain. –
Oh my goodness, you don’t know how much I am battling with myself about this as well. Really, really despise The Disir. It’s between The Crystal Cave and this upcoming episode for my least favourites ever. 🙁
21st September 2021 @ 8:32 am
If it helps at all… we’ve recorded it already, and we were fuming!! 🥺🥺🥺
21st September 2021 @ 8:42 pm
Oh boy! 😬😬
21st September 2021 @ 10:29 pm
Oddly, it helps! At least we’re not alone. Also, it kind of makes me chuckle… Season 5 certainly is quite the explosive. We’ve all together been fuming almost since episode 1!
23rd September 2021 @ 2:13 pm
that’s exactly what I meant about the rumble of discontent across the website… you can just tell it’s there, even if people aren’t outright saying negative things… it’s super weird!! haha
22nd September 2021 @ 1:31 pm
Uh-oh, I guess I have to prepare myself 😬 (as usual, being that one person who actually thought that episode was okay)
23rd September 2021 @ 3:20 am
I don’t mind it either!! I mean it makes me tear up nearly every time but it is actually quite high on my list of destiny!
23rd September 2021 @ 2:15 pm
sorry!!!! <3 <3 <3
24th September 2021 @ 1:57 pm
Yeah it definitely helps. I won’t watch the episode again but I’m here for some quality ranting!
19th September 2021 @ 7:26 am
Thanks for reminding me of all the good bits in this episode. : ) Originally I got annoyed how Arthur kept contradicting what others were telling him. But you’re right, he was behaving in character; everyone’s reasoning could have been a bit edited.
I have to admit, I didn’t quite appreciate Mithian coming back as a victim. Also I find it weird that people seemed to forget how she was engaged to Arthur. I’m glad there’s never any love triangle with Mithian, but I find the lack of any tension between Gwen, Arthur and Mithian about their past is a bit glaring. It’s almost like there’s an unsaid story about Mithian still liking Arthur this whole time, meeting Gwen in person and being quietly glad to see him happy.
But yeah, lots of great, nuanced moments from Arthur. And can I just say I love how ‘human’ Merlin characters are allowed to be. Openly chewing food, hair flying in the swordfighting. Awesome!
20th September 2021 @ 8:02 pm
“I’m glad there’s never any love triangle with Mithian, but I find the lack of any tension between Gwen, Arthur and Mithian about their past is a bit glaring.”
I agree to some extent, I’m glad they all get along and there isn’t a ‘I must watch my husband because he and Mithian nearly got engaged once’ from Gwen. However I don’t think that needed to be delved into any deeper than what we saw.
What I would have prefered was seeing Gwen and Mithian really hitting it off as gal-pals.
And also what’s odd, since in this show age doesn’t apply to certain things, Mithian nearly got engaged to form alliance, as per historical norm for a young beautiful only-daughter of a king. But three years on, she has no husband, neither for politics or love. As she says in ‘hunters heart’; “I would give up my own kingdom to be so loved.”
Would have been nice if when we saw her again she had expressed she was getting married or it had been established Mithian had gotten married in the three year gap and Arthur and Gwen had even attended the wedding. Now the husband is off somewhere abroad or something. Or he could have been killed in the attack at the start, to put higher stakes and heartache in there for Mithian. She lost her husband, now her father could be next…
21st September 2021 @ 9:36 pm
-Would have been nice if when we saw her again she had expressed she was getting married or it had been established Mithian had gotten married in the three year gap and Arthur and Gwen had even attended the wedding. Now the husband is off somewhere abroad or something. Or he could have been killed in the attack at the start, to put higher stakes and heartache in there for Mithian. She lost her husband, now her father could be next…
I’d never thought of that! Very nicely put! I completely agree, it would have been an interesting bit to add and give her more of her own story.
23rd September 2021 @ 2:18 pm
is it really horrible that the second you mentoioned a husband I thought ‘and Odin could have killed him!!!’ lol I feel very blood thirsty, and I don’t actually want Mithian to get the love she’s always wanted, only to lose the guy to a douch canoe like Odin, but it would have also given her additional motivation in her “betrayal” of Arthur. If they had actually killed her husband in front of her, and said they’ll do the same to her dad, if she doesn’t do what they ask…
23rd September 2021 @ 2:16 pm
–meeting Gwen in person and being quietly glad to see him happy.–
ah man, they totally should have got something like that in the episode!! Arthur and Mithian parted on such friendly terms, it would have been really nice to see Mithian be happy for Arthur and Gwen….
17th September 2021 @ 4:29 pm
Long time listening but this is the first time I’m typing here. Hello everyone 🙂 I really enjoyed this episode. The acting was brilliant. I find that when Arthur became King, as you say, everyone is questioning his actions, making his heroic nature a negative in a way. Uther made Arthur unable to fully act on his good-natured ways ie: Helping Hunith, Ealdor, etc. But now that Arthur has complete power and agency in his own right, suddenly his usual personality is inspected by everyone around him. Maybe this is because Arthur is King now and is more valuable to his Kingdom and is heirless. Yes there is a risk to him going now but as a Prince there was still a risk, he was still the only son and heir to Uther and the Kingdom of Camelot. Their worry of Arthur dying and not wanting him to go and to take a back seat is not a new thing but it has intensified. Arthur is judged a lot more by his actions that weren’t only respected but admired and encouraged when he was a Prince. Arthur’s promises he made as a Prince to be acted on as King was admired by Gwen/Merlin, etc but now he is King and is doing what he promised and more, they fret over him more. Arthur has always been at the front of the fight, the leader. I find that sometimes the show has ex machina moments that are sadly very obvious and too neat with as you say, Gwen appearing, Morgana finding Mithian. I think Merlin went to Gaius and not Arthur was because Gaius is usually there for this kind of issue to discuss. When he’s suspicious Gaius is the person he goes to a lot as well. I don’t like how Gaius is dismissing almost gaslighting Merlin with Merlin’s worry. Gwaine staying with Merlin and helping him warmed my heart. Though when Merlin didn’t hug Gwaine back it made me a bit sad. Poor Gwaine but Merlin’s in a rush. Merlin and Mithian helping each other warmed my heart. Mithian gripping Merlin’s jacket broke my heart. Mithian’s worry when Arthur went into the trap was beautifully acted, her fear was so well shown. When she whispered. “He’s not here.” Just showed her regret brilliantly. It shows how much she doesn’t want to do this but she can’t help herself, she has to save her father but she’s also scared of the consequences. I loved how the show gave a moment to her being allowed to go to her father for comfort and reunion. When Arthur and Percival were restrained, the slow mo shot followed by them trying and failing was so valiant, so them but also so hard to watch them slowly being held back and bested, I found it surprisingly disturbing. It was a strange sense of defeat. Just so well done. Arthur’s shout as he was made to kneel down was so sad and a version of Arthur we don’t see too often. I agree with your thoughts on him being angry at Mithian. I feel that, (not justifying) she’s just another person to add to the list of betrayal. I think Arthur’s just sick of it and wants to know why. (even though the why is obvious) It’s just the same cycle for him to go through again and he’s getting more ticked off by those closest to him, betraying him that his outlook and confusion on this is affecting his reaction. I loved when Arthur and Merlin stayed together to face Odin, there’s such an understanding of Merlin is going with Arthur. Of course he is. Why wouldn’t he? It just solidifies what they mean to each other in different ways. For Merlin it’s protecting his friend and King. for Arthur it’s having his closest and bravest defenseless mortal friend by his side on a dangerous mission. They know what they mean to each other, they understand each other’s importance to an extent. and this is such a big moment with Arthur finally facing such an old enemy who hurt him in many ways. and whose hurt Odin in return. it’s was interesting to show the different ages showing with the fighting. How Arthur’s young, strong and the best knight. King Odin is a wounded and older man whose been searching for Arthur for years, wasting away and probably not training and burdened with grief of his son’s death. I found how Merlin stops Arthur at first is almost like a Mother then it slowly takes a darker turn. He says it in a slowly, calculated and careful way. Almost evil? but not evil. Almost like the mastermind but also he understands the significance of this. Gwen would have been a perfect replacement for Gaius. I think this season is showing how Merlin is wiser, probably more than Gaius and in a way, showing Gaius resisting and being proven wrong by Merlin and the plot, it somehow is a very bad way to show how much Merlin has become his own man and developed over the years.
21st September 2021 @ 12:45 am
I think this season is showing how Merlin is wiser, probably more than Gaius and in a way, showing Gaius resisting and being proven wrong by Merlin and the plot, it somehow is a very bad way to show how much Merlin has become his own man and developed over the years. –
I was having the same thought but didn’t write it down in my comments because there is a scene next week that is really quite frank about just this: Merlin has outgrown Gaius but, in my opinion, Gaius has directed his growth (and decision-making and secret-keeping) for so long, that Merlin has grown up in a way that mean he now actually makes quite a few bad decisions. I have said this somewhere before but I think the Merlin who just came to Camelot actually had his heart in the right spot and, without having to second-guess everything, usually made few mistakes or if he did, they were small and easier to fix. But the dragon and Gaius both caused him to un-learn his own independence and reliance on his conscience and listen to them to the point where he became only proactive when they allowed him to. So, while I think Merlin is claiming his independence again in this season, the damage has been done.
21st September 2021 @ 8:03 am
I completely agree. You explained it perfectly.
21st September 2021 @ 1:51 pm
Oh yes I agree as well. Merlin definitely has a negative character arc in this series.
23rd September 2021 @ 2:25 pm
Welcome to the website, Caity! 🙂
really interesting point in regards to how Arthur wasn’t able to act on his good natured ways while Uther was king, and how we’ve spent seasons with everyone telling him that when he is king, he can change all that… and now everyone’s telling him off for having changed things to enable him to act on his good natured ways. It’s like the boy can’t win!!! lol
also really agree with what you said about Mithian just being another person in a long list of betrayals, and that Arthur’s just done with it, which will also be interesting to bear in mind, as we go forward… =/
M Xx
4th October 2021 @ 12:32 pm
Thank you 🙂 Sorry for the late response. Awesome. Thank you for your message. Yeah, Poor Arthur. xD True. 🙂
16th September 2021 @ 10:47 pm
Hi there! Long-time listener first-time wright in.
So I was thinking about what you said about having Mordred around for this episode so that Morgana would think the magic came from him, and it kinda lead me down a rabbit hole. I think what would have sorta solved the problem of Merlin’s weird lack of proactiveness about the Mordred issue, is to have him basically fall for him a second time. (Not in a romantic sense, but in a similar way to how he did with Lancelot.) Back in the beginning with baby Mordred, Merlin obviously had issues with killing a child, but i feel like it wasn’t just that, he was under Mordred’s “spell” in a similar way, all be it not as intensely, to how Morgana was. Wouldn’t it be interesting if when Mordred shows up again in season 5, Merlin is at first misstrusting, but mordred knowing of his magic, and (in this version of the story) being able to communicate with him telepathically, soon becomes a close and trusted friend to Merlin, causing him to convince himself that Mordred can’t be going to hurt Arthur. this would also provide a great opportunity to get rid of Gaius, are replace his role with a combination of Mordred and Guinevere.
21st September 2021 @ 12:40 am
Hi there! Long-time listener first-time wright in.
So I was thinking about what you said about having Mordred around for this episode so that Morgana would think the magic came from him, and it kinda lead me down a rabbit hole. –
Welcome to the party! I do have to warn you that the Mordred ideas won’t be the only rabbit holes you’ll encounter here. And they are all delightful. 😀
23rd September 2021 @ 2:28 pm
I think it would require a lot of re-writes, as we’re relying to heavily on Merlin’s absolute conviction that Mordred is evil (or at least if not evil, still somehow responsible for Arthur inevitable death), to explain a lot of Merlin’s behaviours, moods, and actions. So having him trust Mordred would require re-writing the next… five or so episodes I’d say? But that would definitely get my vote, as I do struggle with Merlin’s view and conviciton of Mordred’s part in destiny, and his passivity about it.
Welcome to the website, great to have you!
M Xx
16th September 2021 @ 8:59 pm
I had not thought about this on any rewatches until this one! Could it work to have a three year time skip NOW? This season could have started as it usually does, a one year skip. Arthur and Gwen would be only a year into their reign, Morgana would not have been captured for three years but just building up her alliance with Ruadan, Aithusa could still have grown a little and not speak, there’s not much dragon lore in this show to contradict that. Mordred could still be played by Alex, as an older looking 16/17 year old. The Death song of Uther could work where it is, then AFTER ‘Another’s sorrow’, when Arthur has established partnership and peace with both Nemeth and Odin’s kingdom, THEN the next episode ‘the disir’ can start with a caption “3 years later”, or someone can just says so. During this time-skip, we would have a better idea of the peace Camelot has had, Morgana could have then been captured (which makes the target of her wrath in a later episode make better sense), and Mordred would be 19/20, fully trained and getting knighted properly, thus making his first outing official in ‘the disir’ work. Merlin can still be at odds with Mordred OR a rewrite in which Merlin has let his guard down over three years and helping Mordred vent his magic, UNTIL ‘the disir’ episode where it all gets brought up again.
BUT we are not on next episode yet, so let’s start from the top 😀
We finally see Nemeth the place, and its lovely subtle natural green colours. And no wonder it was easy to invade, the moat is all dried up and grassy, suspiciously as if it’s been filmed at an old castle hundreds of years in the future… mmh.
But boy does that throne room look stunning, not sure where it was filmed but WOW this can rival Camelot’s grand hall. Its looks rather roman in style, judging from the appearance of Mithian and her entourage in ‘Hunter’s heart’, they look equally as advanced with all the shiny well made armour as Camelot, yet just like in ‘the Coming of Arthur’, they were taken over easily by a surprise attack. I mean, she says later Odin attacked in the night, but the Nemeth throne room looks so bright with mid-day sunshine…
“You, Odin, are a cold-blooded Murderer”…. Princess, was that meant to be a burn? Because that was pretty lame. Where’s the insult, where’s your spice?? I think he knows what he is…
So Morgana’s gone back to wanting the throne again (Sigh). I wish it was still a thing that by this point all she wants is all her enemies gone. Or that she wants to build up the OR again without hearing Arthur’s name. Instead of Morgana saying ‘I want what’s rightfully mine, the throne of Camelot’ she could have said ‘I seek what you seek, Odin. For Arthur to die. But I will leave that up to you so we both get what we want. I only request a front row seat.’ Or something.
On many rewatches I would always get confused whether this was the same man who played Odin in ‘Once and Future queen’ back in series 2. We only see him in that one scene before the opening titles and then he is only a name sprinkled throughout the show. I thought maybe it’s been so long, they got another similar looking actor to play him as a bigger part. But no, small kudos to the show for this consistency, it’s the same actor. I like how he plays it. I can only create a headcanon for him that during all this time Odin’s been on foreign travels. He looks like a warlord, same as Cenred and Helios. Why else would he let Arthur live in uninterrupted peace for years?
I agree entirely, Gwen is just a constant absent presence for someone who is not only supposed to be a hands-on, active queen that Arthur wanted, but also the woman he married for love and enjoys her company because that’s what surely makes them different from arranged marriages. Gwen COULD have a separate queen’s chamber, but it will become obvious that she would rather spend all her time elsewhere than hanging out with her husband in their shared rooms in the evenings. We see her later, and she has a lovely nightie on, but it still doesn’t give the vibe she’s staying, to go to bed WITH Arthur.
I like how you guys said that it could have been good to establish Odin and the Saxons were now one and the same threat this season. As Arthur says “Odin is a plague on this land.” This reminds me of one of my favourite Arthurian characters; Vortigern. He was a ruler who, in his pursuit to defeat the Scots, ultimately dooms the country by allying with the saxons and Jutes (Hengis) and letting them in, who then turn round and betray him, and invade many counties. How cool would it have been to hint in the show that Odin in this universe is the one that screwed up and ‘let the wolves in to deal with the rabbit problem’.
I would have preferred Morgana to use the Merlin universe equivalent of Polyjuice potion to just completely change her image another woman’s, or use a doll like Mary Colins did in the very first episode. Mithian could be more scared of looking at Morgana as she wears her dead lady’s maid’s face or something. Or like Nimueh in ‘poison chalice’, she could have literally walked right into Camelot as she was and ‘bewitched the eye that beholds her.’ Anything except just looking old. Even Morgause looked recognizable when she did it…
If Mithian has been through a traumatic experience, this is a strange time to have her plonked in the middle of a large room surrounded by a crowd of men staring at her. There should be a separate intimate chamber for talking to Mithian privately to just Arthur and Gwen, who can then tell their knights of the plan later.
Merlin’s doing physician stuff! Sure he should be a proper physician by this point, but it’s nice to see him still active in his apprentice role (?) If the show absolutely had to keep Gaius alive this long, I would have liked to see Merlin and Gaius’ roles start to switch round at this point. Gaius at this point is not an exposition dispenser, nor a Gaius-wikipedia, nor someone who really sounds invested in his son-figure’s opinions or mental wellbeing anymore. All the way back in series 1, Gaius was nearly kicked out and replaced by a newer model, and Merlin couldn’t take over coz he was merely a dogsbody. Now 9 years on, Gaius should be living for the time he can retire. I was discussing this to my roommate actually, since I once had a job in a pharmacy, Merlin was once the equivalent to the assistant asking customers if their address matched the prescription and delivers it to them without real knowledge of what the medicine is, Gaius was the busy pharmacist behind the counter making up the medication. NOW Merlin should be the one behind the counter doing the important stuff, and Gaius should be just helping out. OR on the other hand, if Gaius’ character was killed off long before now, Merlin should be ‘the court doctor with a history of magic, in need for a young charge to take under his wing’, and the cycle of fate begins anew.
Side note: Does anyone notice how deep Merlin’s voice has gotten? Do you suppose Colin has done this deliberately to make Merlin seem older?
“The Mithian you knew was here in happier times.” Now this is an interesting quote. This can’t mean the one time Merlin met Mithian over three years ago when Arthur was about to marry her. Clearly this means Camelot and Nemeth have had an active alliance and exchange of visits during the ‘peaceful’ time we never saw. But… we never saw it. Boo.
What new location is this exactly? Another nameless king’s tomb? In Gedref? In Nemeth? Nemeth’s old king, Rodor’s ancestor? Either way, the stone coffin in my opinion looks pretty boring and fake. Kind of a step down from Uther’s grave last episode.
No guards! Why are there never guards! Or servants! Anyone! Why is Gwen now randomly wandering around? This goes nowhere, she tells no one of Mithian’s strange behaviour, nor does she start to recognise Morgana. It’s like she’s left Arthur to go to her own rooms but.. Why?? Also, the cuff on Mithian’s wrist isn’t even tightly fixed, she could shake it off!
Maybe a little appearance of Mordred here? Asking to go with them on their mission but being told to stay coz he’s not ready? He’s a big character in this season but he is forgotten about since the start. There’s even a deleted scene where this happens! The one and only deleted scene of ‘another’s sorrow’ (which I don’t believe). Mordred goes to Arthur to ask to go with him and Arthur says he can’t take him. He says something like “It’s not just about skill, it’s about experience and I’m sorry I can’t give you that right now. But don’t worry, you’ll one day be one of my best knights.” This scene is so lovely and I get why it was cut, but this means poor Alex got no inclusion in this episode at all 🙁
I also would have liked to have seen Mithian and Gwen have more of a relationship during this episode. Gwen doesn’t seem to have a maid anymore after Sefa, let alone any lady courtiers who she has to be followed by. If she is lacking female friends, I’m sure she would get along with Mithian. Having conversations whilst walking through the gardens in ways only fellow women share together. Or maybe I’m thinking of that scene Angel Coulby’s in in Doctor Who’s ‘the girl in the fireplace’ lol…
Again, is Merlin literally the only servant who works in Camelot now? No other knights have brought squires with them. Why is Gaius coming along today of all days? Merlin’s acted physician before right?
“Her blood is young” THAT’S what you think, Gaius? Come on, dude, try harder than that. You touched her forehead, not pricked her finger. Ageing spells don’t change a person. It only makes them wrinkly. Especially for a woman who has no beard to hide behind, and her voice is just a little croaky. Gaius recognised Merlin’s eyes, and he’s also been staring into Morgana’s eyes while treating her ever since she was a little girl. Her recognizable hazel/green eyes that match Uther’s? And you say ‘her blood runs too strong for an old lady’… (sigh)
Why did Morgana stop choking Merlin? It would make sense if she was on the brink of snapping his neck but is interrupted so she HAD to stop and play her part again, but I rewound it, she stops choking Merlin BEFORE Arthur yells out. In fact, by the look on her face, it’s almost like she’s just realised what she’s done and is shocked by it or is hesitant to continue. I thought you were death-crazy now, my lady. Also might have been cool if as soon as Merlin knows it’s Morgana, he JUST sees Morgana, like he sees through her magic. The power of the name and all that…
Nice to see Gaius doing something, but why is it necessary to do magic in secret? Oh right yeah, because Arthur still hasn’t made it clear what people with good magic are allowed to get away with in Camelot. Arthur knows about Gaius’ past; it would have been nice to have gotten some clarification that he’s been given special permission to use magic on people if that is literally the last resort to healing them. Arthur could have hinted before he left them ‘do all you can for him, Gaius.’ Knowing if he turns a blind eye, Gaius can literally do all in his power to help Merlin.
I don’t think this ‘healing Merlin’ scene was ever meant to fake us out on Merlin possibly dying, right? Or feeling scared for Merlin at any point. Because I feel bad that I don’t. I’m actually more frustrated and yelling at Merlin to stop sleeping and get up and get on with it :-{ And aww Gwaine misses out on a hug! And yeah, leave an exhausted Gaius there alone, why don’t ya haha.
I got serious Medici vibes with rewatching this scene now, Arthur slow motion struggling against the hold of like 3 or 4 men. Chills.
There is a headcanon that Gwaine always knew Merlin had magic and this next part fuels that headcanon. Gwaine stays to rescue the knights outside but without arguing, he lets Merlin charge alone into the tomb where the baddies are. He knows how capable Merlin is on his own. And the earthquake is pretty epic. I almost wish Merlin made his voice a little louder though, so that its deep and booming but not entirely recognizable. I want to see Morgana ‘quake’ in her boots herself at the sound of Emrys once again finding her and thwarting her plan. It would remind her he’s still out there and that leads neatly into a future episode in the season (where SPOILERS: Alator returneth!)
Poor Morgana ends every episode getting knocked out. Like brother, like sister.
Arthur’s eyes look amazingly black in the confrontation with Odin. The fight could have gone on a tad longer, but I’m glad Arthur beat him and Merlin didn’t cheat with his magic. I get that Merlin is sometimes Arthur’s inner conscience spoken out-loud but I dunno how I feel about Merlin needing to tell Arthur to not go too far rather than Arthur making that decision himself. Surely Arthur would not have killed Odin then and there if Merlin hadn’t called out. But oh, angry and intense Bradley looks so gorgeous!
Gwen, sweetheart, I get you didn’t have much of a part in this episode, but rounding up the lesson learned for Arthur and for us wasn’t needed. This is one of those times that remind me the show is made for a young (and apparently stupid) audience… ‘you learned to play nicely, revenge isn’t cool, well done you!’
Arthur and everyone are smiling and breathing easier, and relishing in their win for the day basking in the daylight, yet Merlin goes back in his dark chambers worrying about the next thing coming. Gaius tries to get him to see the positives about Nemeth being saved and Camelot now having a treaty with Odin, but Merlin doesn’t let up on his paranoia or give himself one moment to relax about any achievements made…
Like I mentioned before, maybe NOW could be a good time to do the few years time skip starting next episode. The ‘Arthur’s bane’ episodes could have involved Ruadan’s druid army, which Mordred had joined recently until he decides to jump ship. Now she’s lost Ruadan’s men somehow, Morgana allies with Odin who is back from foreign travels, bringing with him not only his men, but it would become apparent later, he had also let more saxons into the country, saxons who then abandon him and join Morgana and Alvarr three years later. Yes, I wanted Alvarr to come back and be Morgana’s version of Cenred on a sexy metaphorical leash (Spoilers though, he’s never coming back :-/) Mordred would be older and starting to let his magic out in small sessions, and Merlin could be okay and helping with that (I’ve been reading fanfictions like this lol), until next episode’s plot makes things complicated…
Last moment thought: Hang on… where was Aithusa all this time?
20th September 2021 @ 3:02 am
I love the idea of making the time jump after this episode!
“If Mithian has been through a traumatic experience, this is a strange time to have her plonked in the middle of a large room surrounded by a crowd of men staring at her. There should be a separate intimate chamber for talking to Mithian privately to just Arthur and Gwen, who can then tell their knights of the plan later.”
technically agree, although I can totally see where they didnt think about things like this in Olden Days.
““Her blood is young” THAT’S what you think, Gaius? Come on, dude, try harder than that. ”
for some reason, that scene made me think of the one in Harry Potter in the movie where Harry and Ron talk about how Ginny and Hermione have nice skin, lol. Like what Gaius REALLY wanted to say is that her robes are clearly showing off the body of a woman in her 20s/30s; but alas, Gaius knows he’s on a family friendly show.
20th September 2021 @ 8:06 pm
lol Now what I can picture is Gaius taking Merlin aside after checking her over and whispering “Da-amn, Merlin. Hilde be fit! She got nice skin, dude! 😂
23rd September 2021 @ 3:08 pm
–But boy does that throne room look stunning, not sure where it was filmed but WOW —
it’s a photoshop job, actually. The Nemeth interiour is from the Hagia Sophia in Turkey. And yeah, they never filmed in Turkey, they just glued the interior on top of what they filmed in the studio. It does look beautiful though, and only if you look closer can you tell just how photoshopped it actually is lol
— As Arthur says “Odin is a plague on this land.” This reminds me of one of my favourite Arthurian characters; Vortigern. He was a ruler who, in his pursuit to defeat the Scots, ultimately dooms the country by allying with the saxons and Jutes (Hengis) and letting them in, who then turn round and betray him, and invade many counties. How cool would it have been to hint in the show that Odin in this universe is the one that screwed up and ‘let the wolves in to deal with the rabbit problem’.–
that is a very very cool head canon!
–Side note: Does anyone notice how deep Merlin’s voice has gotten? Do you suppose Colin has done this deliberately to make Merlin seem older?–
I remember when it originally aired, Colin’s voice drop was SO JARRING!!! haha However Colin’s non RP accent voice is a lot lower, so I assume as he got more comfortable in the accent, he didn’t have to “put it on” quite so hard, and therefore slipped more into his normal register? And yeah, obviously, it’s also been 10 years, so that naturally lends itself to a deeper voice. Especially once (according to the title card) he becomes a young MAN! 🙂
ah man, now I want to rewatch doctor who, especially the girl in the fireplace! such a good episode!!!!
–I don’t think this ‘healing Merlin’ scene was ever meant to fake us out on Merlin possibly dying, right?–
I’m kind of pondering a theory on that, for the end of the show… hang thigh! lol
24th September 2021 @ 7:56 am
Oh wow it’s Photoshop?? I always did get a weird vibe from that place when watching that scene (IS there an uncanny valley version for buildings..?) But yeah I assumed this was like a preserved old palace/museum in the UK they were allowed to film at for 2 minutes haha. The things they can do with tech now a days.. Thanks for the info!
16th September 2021 @ 4:54 pm
(BTW, this is still me, Danuta. I’m changing my name to one that feels a bit more comfortable, ty in advance for taking that into account 🙂 )
To be honest, this episode was more of a hot mess for me than Arthur’s Bane was. I don’t know exactly why. Maybe it’s the fact that I wanted Mithian to come back so much, but then they put her in that “damsel in distress” role, which I’m not a fan of. Granted, she was still resourceful, which I loved, but I still wish she just remained in her awesome position of power&kindness which she occupied in the Hunter’s Heart, where she didn’t have to be diminished in order for Arthur not to choose her as a wife, as it was about something else. Although I do appreciate the fact that they are paralleling Gwen’s misfortune from The Hunter’s Heart with Mithian’s misfortune here. In a way, both women are similar to each other – even in adverse circumstances, they are still resourceful and fight for themselves. Yet another reason why I wish there was more Gwen in this episode! That would have tied nicely.
I only have random thoughts on this episode, really:
– Morgana’s prosthetics don’t work for me. Dragoon, at least, looks almost nothing like Merlin, only being recognizable by his eyes. With Morgana, I can instantly recognize her and I start questioning why the other characters don’t.
– Nemeth is in Byzantium. That’s a fact. At least, that’s what the set seems to suggest. Interesting, given that in The Hunter’s Heart Mithian’s knights wore those kind of face covering things (sorry, my wardrobe vocabulary is deluding me today). There are some slightly eastern undertones going on with Nemeth, but not orientalized eastern. Which is kinda interesting. It’s all about green and gold.
– My heart aches for Gwaine when Merlin pushes him away 🙁
– I also wish Arthur mentioned Gwen as well as his knights in the tomb! Especially so, y’know, his knights are here with him, and there’s a chance that they will get defeated as well, while Gwen is still in Camelot and can potentially lead a new attack upon Odin.
– Bradley shines in this episode. I also loved the expression on his face when he finally recognizes Morgana.
Soundtrack note! Very interesting soundtrack in the last scene! (the conversation between Arthur and Gwen) The “destiny” theme (the same as with the Round Table etc.) is played on a trombone (I think?). I don’t think I’ve ever heard that variation before. Is it because Arthur is one step closer to uniting the lands of Albion? A choice of a heroic instrument to play this particular theme is pretty telling, I think.
I’m looking forward to Mad Libs! Judging by my last reaction, it might be super fun 🙂 And then, back to the tragedy…
20th September 2021 @ 8:10 pm
– Soundtrack note! Very interesting soundtrack in the last scene! (the conversation between Arthur and Gwen) The “destiny” theme (the same as with the Round Table etc.) is played on a trombone (I think?). I don’t think I’ve ever heard that variation before. Is it because Arthur is one step closer to uniting the lands of Albion? A choice of a heroic instrument to play this particular theme is pretty telling, I think. –
Ahh I always look forward to your soundtrack comments! Went back and listened to this after reading what you said, and yes it is interesting, I’ve never heard that particular variation! It reminded me of a theme I noticed which is a bit similar, used when we transition from Mithian recounting the attack to the “original round table” gathering planning the rescue. It’s french horn I think? And quite a different version of the destiny theme – it’s got this beautiful long high note which give me chills haha. I’m pretty sure it’s used when Merlin helps Morgana in the nightmare begins wayyyy back in s2, and it’s always stood out to me for some reason, but it’s interesting that it comes back now when we’re helping Mithian fight Morgana instead – the irony!
21st September 2021 @ 12:14 am
Oh yes it might be a French horn! I’m not super good with the trumpet family 😀 This theme comes back in important moments of the show (the base for it is the epic destiny theme from the very first scene of the show, the one where Merlin walks to Camelot and Kilgarrah’s voiceover is going on about destiny), but it appears in many different variations, one of which I’m really fond of and which (mild spoiler) will come back next episode. Here, it’s a bit different. I didn’t remember the s2 variation, but it would be a really cool parallel! 🙂
21st September 2021 @ 11:13 pm
Oh no no, I meant the other theme I was talking about for the french horn!! I’m certain your correct with the trombone, and besides I’m awful at picking out instruments haha should probably work on that as it’s a certain question to come up in an exam haha! Apologies for the confusion!
Have just relistened and think actually the one I’d liked is more like the credits theme – but I suppose they are all related. I will be interested to see if it comes back!
And – is this one next episode the Finna bit at the end? If so, I remember your analysis of it from a while ago and it was wonderful!
22nd September 2021 @ 1:35 pm
Yes, that’s the theme! To my knowledge, it appears first in s3 finale in the OG Round Table scene, then comes back in the Dorocha episode, then in the Disir, and the last time in The Kindness of Strangers. I’m glad you liked my meta 😀 I guess I’m going to copy-paste it into the comments again soon, haha 😀
23rd September 2021 @ 2:48 pm
–My heart aches for Gwaine when Merlin pushes him away–
we had a lot of sadness and outright betrayal in the comments on this scene, and I totally get that!! though I genuinly never thought of it like that. It makes me laugh, and then I love how instantely Gwaine’s grabbing his sword and running with Merlin, because yeah, there’s no time to loose, Gwaine gets that. I just think Gwaine’s fab in this episode. immediately getting firewood when Gaius says ‘he’s getting cold’ without actually being asked, immediately running towards danger with merlin when Merlin starts running without any explanation, splitting up and wishing Merlin good luck without questioning his capabilities, rescuing all the men… I do always campaign for more hugging on Merlin, but yeah, I really didn’t miss it here. I was just so happy to get “proper” Gwaine!! lol
16th September 2021 @ 4:18 pm
I liked this episode more than I expected to. The only thing that bothered me was Merlin’s weird inability to just say to Arthur “she’s acting suspicious, please can we look into this situation more?” instead of being “big picture” to use Ruth’s very apt words. Amusingly, I 100% did not realise that this was an episode about revenge on any level until you talked about it. I thought Gwen and the others were making assumptions but that Arthur’s motivation was purely to save the life of someone who is both an ally and the father of someone we already know he is fond of. The stand off felt tonally a bit weird to me, for that reason, but I didn’t think too much of it since Odin is the one who went after Arthur with murderous intent, whereas Arthur made the obvious heroic choice to lead Odin away from Mithian and her aging father – therefore Merlin stopping him killing him felt weird, actually, because why would Merlin stop Arthur killing someone who is clearly a threat to him? (I kept thinking about Merlin wanting Arthur to kill Mordred, actually, but I do recognise that the prophecy makes that rather a different situation). Essentially, I wasn’t confused about whether Arthur was just doing this for revenge because I wholeheartedly believed that Gwen’s concern was unfounded and Arthur went in with pure intentions, up until your discussion made me rethink that! I suppose the only other thing that annoyed me was why Mithian didn’t use “Hilda”‘s sudden collapse to tell someone “help, I’m being manipulated into this, it’s all a lie” – I mean, Morgana was distracted, held by Merlin and Gaius, so surely she could have said something? I just kind of wish that throughout the episode a tiny bit more care was taken to demonstrate that Morgana really would 100% know if Mithian even mouthed the words “help.”
Anyway, aside from those small things, I enjoyed this. I like the conceit of Arthur’s compassion and heroism being used against him, and that he doesn’t react to that betrayal by being harsher but rather by being kinder than necessary. I liked the cool architecture at the beginning with the pretty domed ceiling! I loved Gwaine and Merlin together – how concerned Gwaine was! How quickly he rushed to be helpful! How happy he was when Merlin was awake! It felt like early Gwaine again <3 And it's a lovely reminder that despite how isolating destiny is, despite how alone Merlin feels, he does have a place in Camelot amongst these knights whose stations could easily make them overlook this clumsy servant but who really truly value Merlin for who he is, as a person, outside of any destiny or magical power, and that's beautiful.
Given that I submitted my lesson poem far too late for last week's episode (I knew when I submitted it but figured I'd share anyway), I should probably get started on a sonnet for this week! I don't even care about winning points – I set myself a challenge and now I can't back down!
21st September 2021 @ 12:34 am
Amusingly, I 100% did not realise that this was an episode about revenge on any level until you talked about it. –
I remember when I first watched it, I just thought that all these people putting the mission down to Arthur’s desire for revenge just didn’t understand his truly noble and selfless actions to save an ally, not to kill an enemy. And then, that would have helped to create an even greater surprise and affirmation of Arthur’s kingly qualities when he offered Odin his life and a truce. If nothing else, I think that’s certainly how Bradley James acted it. It would be rather amusing to think that, in an act of rebellion and allegiance to the legendary Golden King Arthur, Bradley James simply refused to act the base motivations of revenge that were implied in the script so he became like a rock with the waves of all those lines about revenge simply breaking and disappearing on his steadfastness and loyalty to his noble principles. 😀
23rd September 2021 @ 2:30 pm
I am absolutely down with your head canon of Bradley James, the loyal and noble rock!
23rd September 2021 @ 2:40 pm
–The stand off felt tonally a bit weird to me, for that reason, but I didn’t think too much of it since Odin is the one who went after Arthur with murderous intent, whereas Arthur made the obvious heroic choice to lead Odin away from Mithian and her aging father – therefore Merlin stopping him killing him felt weird, actually, because why would Merlin stop Arthur killing someone who is clearly a threat to him? (I kept thinking about Merlin wanting Arthur to kill Mordred, actually, but I do recognise that the prophecy makes that rather a different situation)–
weirdly enough, same! I did not remember this as the episode where arthur ‘finally get his revenge on Odin’, or even a ‘where Arthur, for a little while, acts like it’s all about revenge’, and while Mary’s comment below about Bradley’s noble refusal to give into the scripted revenge made me laugh… I think that might actually be where the contrast lies. If you wanted to do the revenge plot, they would have needed to lean a lot harder on the Death Song, and the hang over of feelings that came from that… which may also be just one of those moments, where the messy shooting order (that BBC Merlin clearly favoured) actually causes genuine continuity problems, and didn’t allow for the cast to bring the previous week’s episode into this week’s episode, even thought there would have been a quite easy link to make there.
urgh. but I also just had a thought on how the show and the last season would have been different, if Merlin embracing all that he is as a magic user, as Emrys, as part of Arthur’s destiny, would have included embracing killing for Arthur. I think we talked about it briefly last ep or the one before, the show does this weird thing where merlin can’t kill Mordred and if they’d been keeping merlin pure and away from murder, that would be understandable… but they haven’t!! But how cool would it be if Merlin embraced killing Arthur’s enemies as one of his duties to get Arthur to where he is going, but also as a way to keep Arthur “pure”. Obviously Arthur is a warrior, so he’s been trained to kill since birth… but that’s not the same as killing someone like Carleon, in cold blood, or in this episode Odin, when you’ve got them so clearly defeated on the ground in front of you… and while Merlin wants to stop Arthur getting corrupted through these types of kills, he also knows that a man like Odin can’t ever be trusted, so he does need to die… after. That would have been a cool way to go ::ponders::
23rd September 2021 @ 8:40 pm
“But how cool would it be if Merlin embraced killing Arthur’s enemies as one of his duties to get Arthur to where he is going, but also as a way to keep Arthur “pure”. Obviously Arthur is a warrior, so he’s been trained to kill since birth… but that’s not the same as killing someone like Carleon, in cold blood, or in this episode Odin, when you’ve got them so clearly defeated on the ground in front of you… and while Merlin wants to stop Arthur getting corrupted through these types of kills, he also knows that a man like Odin can’t ever be trusted, so he does need to die… after. That would have been a cool way to go ::ponders::”
That honestly sounds like one of my dark!Merlin fic ideas 😀 I love it.