Episode IV.I & IV.II – The Darkest Hour Part 1&2
We are back with Season 4 of Merlin!
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2nd May 2021 @ 2:48 am
I’m late to the comments, as I’m still behind on the podcast, and I haven’t rewatched these episodes yet, but I’ve been thinking about Lancelot getting written out so early in the series, and I think there’s a reason beyond “Merlin can’t have nice things.” Hopefully I’m not repeating anyone’s comment, but I think that, with some memory of where they take and don’t take the series going forward, Lancelot couldn’t have been there as Merlin’s friend who knows about his magic.
SPOILERS BELOW
Merlin has all sorts of investment in staying low-key and trying to make sure he is never associated with magic in anyone’s mind, but Lancelot has nonmagical privilege in this area. I think the audience would expect Lancelot to advocate for Arthur to open his mind and stop persecuting magic users. Lancelot’s not magic. He could do that without putting himself in the kind of danger Merlin would face. Given that the show never wants to let Arthur know about the magic, the writers would have had to create increasingly unlikely reasons for Lancelot not to take that route, or for Arthur not to listen to Lancelot (which could have been a great source of conflict between Arthur, Lancelot, and Gwen for them that wasn’t romantic). Otherwise, the audience would have started to question Lancelot’s greatness and purity. He’d risk becoming almost as bad as Gaius through standing by, knowing how hurt Merlin and others are by the persecution of magic and never saying anything.
I don’t remember much of seasons 4 and 5–the time gaps between seasons always made me feel like I’d missed something–but I think as tenuous as some of the storytelling may get, keeping Lancelot in as a silent “ally” would have been a bit much, though they could have done something interesting with him following in Gaius’s footsteps and showing us how Gaius’s complicity with the persecution started, and maybe even could have used a storyline where Lancelot chooses not to advocate for magic to have Merlin grow and reflect on Gaius’s behavior and realize for himself that “Gaius is the worst.” If we’re going to have a darker, more cynical Merlin, having him slowly realize that even his mentor and father figure has these behavior patterns that undermine the Camelot he wants would have been a really interesting way to get there. Of course, the problem with that is that Lancelot is supposed to be super noble and super pure, and the writers would have had to crush that vision to pull off this theoretical direction I’ve just invented. So instead, if I remember right, Lancelot gets to die a noble, self-sacrificing death, we go on, Arthur turns against magic, and Merlin has to keep working from the shadows because…Merlin is strangely American in its reluctance to change the status quo. I usually associate British TV series with a much greater willingness to change the status quo and still have the show be good. (Shows like Call the Midwife, Downton Abbey, and Wolfblood all make pretty significant changes to their cast and circumstances in a way that I don’t think of American shows doing.)
8th November 2021 @ 4:49 pm
Hi Morgan!
you definitely make a fair point. I think for a while the show could get away with lancelot wanting to help advocate for magic people on Merlin’s behalf, without the terror of potentially giving himself away at any second, by having him do what Merlin requests of him, which is keeping the magic secret. And you could still have all of that stem from Gaius’ influence over ensuring Merlin doesn’t grow and change and out himself. but you’re right, even ensuring that Lancelot only follows Merlin’s wishes, there would come a point where we’d question why pure and noble Lancelot isn’t helping Merlin to grow and realise how awesome he really is, and how much more awesome he could be, if he was completely honest with the world…. mmmm.
I do appreciate that end of the day, Santiago wasn’t available, and therefore meta reasons always overshadowed story telling. it’s just nice to dream about what could have been sometimes… š
M Xx
21st April 2021 @ 4:43 pm
I got to see them filming a bit of the Merlin is hurt scene at Raglan castle. Not Percival carrying Merlin because I think they did that the morning I wasn’t there (I went on the afternoon on the second day as well as all the first day). I loved how they set everything up. I was really too far away to hear anything, but I wanted to stay out of the filming crew and actors anyway.
They also did a photo shoot of the knights that day after filming and I was able to get a lot of great photos from that since they didn’t chase me off.
As for these episodes, I agree. It seemed weird. The whole Lance taking Merlin back to Camelot and then not was awkward (although I think it was to talk about how Merlin thought he’d never tell Arthur about his magic and tell someone who had no investment in Merlin telling Arthur either way – it was so sad). I loved that Lance sacrificed himself but I didn’t agree with you about Gwen talking to Lance in their last scene together. I thought it was pretty cold of her to imply that Arthur was worth more than Lance and that he should sacrifice himself just for her sake. Made my teeth ache.
Anyway, loving your podcast even though I’m really far behind.
22nd March 2021 @ 4:07 pm
This whole focus on Lancelot and merlinās Friendship is nice to say the least, but itās just seems such a weird plot point to then drop his other relationships like they didnāt matter. Like Arthur taking merlinās presence for granted til itās gone.
Why did Gwaine not also rush over to see if Merlin was alright in the hall, why didnāt Gwaine offer to help look after Merlin in his chambers, why didnāt Gwaine try to insist on being the one to take Merlin back to Camelot after his dorocha attack?
I get this was a Lancelot-centric episode because he would not be long for this series, and itās a shame that for a man who only wanted to be a knight we saw none of the year of him being one, but also that the rest of the knights didnāt seem as chummy and common like they are meant to be. Gwaine has had just as much time, perhaps more so with Merlin and super duper loyal, like heās merlinās Knight first, arthurās Second. But as time goes on, his history with Merlin will disappear and thatās a real shame. In this episode two parter he should have also shown how close he was to Merlin.
I do get the bee scene, however. Gwaineās the funny one of the group. His mind isnāt all about food when heās trying to get the honey. He senses the groups sadness after merlinās absence so does whatever he can to cheer them up. If it means being the comic relief and getting stung and looking foolish then so be it, if it means they smile.
22nd March 2021 @ 4:16 pm
I do often think about Eoin Macken and wonder how he felt when after getting those two amazing Gwaine episodes in season 3 he was offered a more full time job on the show, playing the same character, and how he must have felt with each script and how his character just disappeared the longer the show went on š
I will take the bee logic! basically I’ll take any headcanon that makes gwaine more of a real boy!!! š
M Xx
2nd March 2021 @ 5:24 am
(this was supposed to be a reply to “puppyperson” below…sorry!!)
2nd March 2021 @ 5:16 am
Hello to everyone! I am new to posting here but I feel like I know many of you from listening to Ruth and Michelle read your comments (and names) aloud on the D&C podcast. I’ve been wanting to chime in for ages, but timing is a difficult friend and I’m typically a week or more behind you all.
Season 4 is really difficult for me. There are many moments I enjoy in the season and in 4.1/4.2, but overall this is the point in the series where the absence of strong female stories becomes too hard to ignore. I agree that this show is at its core about Merlin & Arthur’s relationship, but it sucks that that is at the expense of deeper, more meaningful involvement of the amazing women in the show. This said, here are a few thoughts:
Deaths:
I appreciate that this is how Morgause exits our story! I always thought this was a splendid death, it fits her character and is another acknowledgement of her understanding of the power of life/death/portals as high priestess. I do wish we saw Morgana with more of a vision for how to make use of Morgause’s parting gift…and I wish the show dedicated any time at all to understanding the nature of Morgause and Morgana’s relationship to one another. A missed opportunity.
I find Lancelot’s death to be perfect, and perfectly tragic. It is so sincere, and I love that we see Gwen in such real grief. It’s so painful, but it is perfect (to me, that is!). (SPOILER: this is what makes later events feel so unethical to me).
Introductions:
I wish the show scrapped the double feature model for season openings and instead gave us a first episode where Agravaine first arrives at Camelot — we could see his reintroduction/reacquaintance with Arthur, understand his backstory, maybe even build up to why he chooses to betray Arthur/Camelot. I think there is so much potential in Agravaine and Morgana’s relationship, but the show makes it completely nonsensical…I just don’t get it, and because the show doesn’t set up Agravaine as a character worth caring for, I’m never invested in him.
Random:
After finishing D&C episode, I just wanted to echo that I so dig Morgana’s green eyeshadow and disheveled aesthetic. Makes sense if you’ve been living in a hovel for a year stewing with resentment… If only Morgana could use bees as her spies (the ones that chase Gwaine)! This would be an amazing expansion of her magic and would be so frightening!
I absolutely love the score in this show.
Much gratitude if you’ve read this far <3 hope to join in again soon!
2nd March 2021 @ 4:27 pm
Welcome to the website madness, glad you’ve found your way here! š And yes, I fear S4 is going to be a difficult one for all of us, but we will try our best to make it as fun as possible, even while we roll in frustration hahaha
M Xx
3rd March 2021 @ 5:51 pm
Hi and welcome! I love Morgause’s death too, and I absolutely love Morgana’s witchy (dare I say goblin-core) outfit! Where her dresses from previous seasons made her seen put together and elegant, she seems to have relaxed into a look that better reflects her state of mind, and is beautiful in an entirely separate way.
I am also so pained by what happens to Lancelot later- not least because the truth never comes out!!! I am sure we will all have a lot to say when we get there and I can already hear what Ruth and Michelle will have to say about it!
1st March 2021 @ 12:37 am
Hello, everyone in the wonderful D&C community! I found the podcast over the winter break after rewatching Merlin, and am so excited to be commenting each week with you all now. Upon the rewatch of 4.1/4.2 for this week, I think I ended up with more questions than comments.
First, I want to bring up Agravaine’s loyalties and motivations. I totally agree that a distraught and out-of-it Uther would seem like sufficient revenge, if that is the goal for what Uther did to Ygraine. But then surely Agravaine ought to actually want to honor his sisterās living memory, meaning Arthur? I cannot understand why Agravaine is in kahoots with Morgana. She is Uther’s daughter, not Ygraine’s, so why work with her to bring down Ygraine’s only child? Is Agravaine aggravated (lol) about the treatment of magic users? I don’t think (SPOILER) that we ever get any hint that he does/respects/has any reason to support magic other than in getting back at Uther. But WHY BOTHER NOW?! Uther clearly has lost his mind. What more do you need?? I also want to point out that Agravaine called Gwen “Guinevere”. I think Ruth and Michelle once discussed how only Arthur called her that. Perhaps I have overlooked some instances, but I was surprised on the rewatch because I remember a point being made of how she was addressed.
While thinking about Uther, I wonder what would happen if Uther had been in his right mind and the Dorocha were released. Who would HE have sacrificed? I doubt himself nor Arthur, despite Arthurās protests. Just an interesting thought experiment.
While thinking about Uther and Ygraine, I am puzzled why the calyx demanded another sacrifice for the sacrifice that opened the portal. In Ygraine’s case, balance had to be maintained by taking a life for giving a life. Why in this case must two lives be given? Seems like that would make the balance even worse. I know the calyx was the one who demanded the sacrifice, but that does not seem to fit if the calyx is of the old religion. I never understood if the calyx was their own being and not necessarily a sort of high priestess, but I had figured being of the old religion would mean similar rules in balance. Or perhaps the calyx is above a priestess, somewhere between or akin to (SPOILER) the triple goddess or something? Maybe if you have more power like that, you can make your own rules. Perhaps Destiny is something on that level, explaining its bizarre choice to reveal just an inconvenient amount of information to Merlin at all times. Wow, what a rabbit hole.
Now that I have brought up Destiny, I want to talk about how just knowing oneās Destiny or even characteristics about oneās Destiny seems to massively affect the characters. We all see how the information has affected poor Merlin, but 4.1/4.2 is really the beginning of explicit knowledge from Destiny affecting Morgana. She now wants to learn to outwit Destiny to avoid Emrys and her downfall. Just like Merlin (SPOILER?), her knowledge sets about her actions that lead her there. Merlin is no longer the only one desperately trying to change a Destiny because of the knowledge of the Destiny. Perhaps Destiny is just too much for anyone to handle (except for possibly Kilgharrah). Think about when Lancelot hears Kilgharrah say that he is the noblest and bravest of them all. While Lancelot sacrificed himself for many reasons, surely having some sort of Destiny/oversight helped push him toward the decision. Maybe the moral is that Destiny is too much for people to handle and knowledge of it will always ultimately lead people to its conclusion.
On the subject of learning, no one ever learns that just knocking people out and walking away is never enough to ensure their death. Never. They really need to learn to be more drastic, if they are so concerned with preventing something.
Just a few more things I noticed. Thanks for hanging in there, if you’re still reading. Ruth and Michelle mentioned several times how Merlin is an emotional barometer for the audience, which is something I totally see now that it has been pointed out! 4.1/4.2 really show us how much Merlin is an emotional barometer for Arthur as well, especially with fear. Legitimate fear was mentioned a lot this week, and I really do think that this is the first time Arthur starts to feel real fear because he senses it in Merlin. They have faced so many scary, near-death situations before, but Merlin has never acted quite like this. Merlin’s emotions really do rub off on Arthur, and the audience for that matter. I definitely remember this pair of episodes as the “scarier” ones with the jump scares and all.
A bit SPOILER-y: I was really taken aback on the rewatch by Gaius’s comment, “No mortal has ever survived their [Dorochaās] touch.” I know it was mentioned how weird it was that none of the characters noticed that Merlin didnāt die immediately upon Dorocha-impact. But looking back, I wonder if this might have been foreshadowing for the audience. Initially, I thought Merlin did not die on Dorocha-impact because of his magic; but with hindsight of the series as a whole, I wonder if the ending implications impacted his survival. Just some food for thought.
Finally, I am still baffled that Camelot was seemingly the only place affected by the Dorocha, even though they supposedly affected everyone. How come no other kingdoms sent someone to the Isle of the Blessed? Is the Isle of the Blessed in Camelot? Are all of these highly magical places in Camelot, including the Lake of Avalon? Perhaps the high concentration of magical places in Camelot is why the Sidhe were so obsessed with getting their princess on the Camelot thrown. I would love to see a map, if a fan has ever attempted to draw one.
Again, very excited to be joining the D&C community. Looking forward to all the discussions this season!! š
1st March 2021 @ 1:58 am
Omg you make a good point about the fact that no mortal has survived a Dorocha attack – does Arthur know this? If so, why doesn’t he question why Merlin isn’t dead?? I knew he was a clotpole but not that much of a clotpole! LOL
1st March 2021 @ 11:57 am
I don’t think anyone was really listening / paying huge attention to Gaius when he said it, including Merlin himself, but I had always assume it was completely on purpose in regards to the audience, ie. if you know the legend / are paying attention then nudge nudge wink wink, and if you don’t, you may ignore it completely or just be slightly puzzled by it
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 3:04 am
Welcome š
Agravaine’s motivations are so confusing… I really wish that, if we are to have him in this show at all, he was some kind of a lone player who wanted Uther overthrown, but had some loyalty towards Arthur because of Igraine… I mean, the idea of his character is actually quite intriguing and there could have been so many paths to take! Agrh.
As to the Calix (that is totally how I read this name until I once put on subtitles by accident and discovered that it was Cailleah or something – love you Irish language!), I think in the Celtic mythology she is actually a goddess. I don’t know if the show decided to roll with it, but if they did, she would be definitely more powerful than a High Priestess… but they never state she’s a goddess, just a keeper of the gate so to speak… so I don’t know.
“No mortal” Merlin – yes, I also realized that in hindsight! It’s curious how they throw around these clues, never spilling out that Merlin is immortal (maybe to keep their options open?), but at the same time, with the name Emrys literally meaning immortal… and now this… like, I would like to know what Gaius thinks about it! He would be the educated person to know the meaning of the name and to reach to some conclusions, right? But Gaius likes keeping secrets and pretending they aren’t there, so :’)
1st March 2021 @ 3:27 am
Yes, making Agravaine a lone player would help so much.
Ohhhh. That info about the Cailleah makes so much sense. Please excuse my spelling mistakes! I usually try to look them up (like, why spell them wilddeoren, amiright?), but missed this one. Maybe we should start keeping track of all of the goddesses (or gods) mentioned on the show to help us hash out what the Old Religion is by the end. Memory tells me three, if we include the Cailleah. Wait… maybe the Cailleah could be one of three that make up the ~triple~ goddess??? Hmmmmm…..
I didn’t realize Emrys meant immortal. It was right there the whole time!! You are really enlightening me today, Danuta!
1st March 2021 @ 11:21 am
Don’t worry about the spelling! I find the spelling in Celtic languages super confusing š
And I think I found out about Emrys when I checked out Merlin’s Wikipedia page to learn more about the original Arthurian legend, so it was more of an accident than anything else š¤£
1st March 2021 @ 12:01 pm
–Initially, I thought Merlin did not die on Dorocha-impact because of his magic; but with hindsight of the series as a whole, I wonder if the ending implications impacted his survival. Just some food for thought.–
I think that is exactly how they designed it. Merlin has not died so many times, because he’s managed to magic himself out of sticky situations, and then you’ve got this episode, and you could absolutely just go ‘ah well, he’s got magic, fair enough’ – just like I doubt that the dorocha could kill the dragon, for example, though not being human probably also helps there… anyway. I think you’re totally meant to go ‘he’s magic, that’s fair’ and only slowly start to realise that maybe… that’s not it at all.
Which of course is helped along if you know the arthurian legends, but yeah, I absolutely believe this was on purpose
Also welcome! š
M Xx
28th February 2021 @ 10:58 pm
Hey everyone! I’ve been a silent listener up until now but I’d love to chime in here because season 4 is definitely my favourite. I remember really liking The Darkest Hour when I last saw it. What makes it work for me are the beautiful emotional beats – especially the lounging on the log, Lancelot’s death, and Gwen mourning him (the music in that scene is absolutely beautiful, it gives me chills every time).
I wanted to comment on Agravaine. Like you, I spent most of season 4 being confused about his motives. I understand his wanting to do away with Uther – he was obviously loyal to Ygraine and he probably blames Uther for her death. But if his loyalty to his sister is what makes him hate Uther, why does he hate Arthur? I’m sure Ygraine wouldn’t want him to be secretly scheming to kill her son? My only guess is that he probably thinks he believes there’s something in it for him if Morgana becomes queen. Don’t quote me on this, but I heard somewhere that there was a cut scene where he apparently declares his love for Morgana in a later episode so maybe he had it in his head that he’d kill the Pendragons, marry Morgana, and become King of Camelot himself. This is the only theory that makes sense to me, but I’m not sure if we can consider it canon if it was never explicitly stated in the show.
The fact that the Agravaine-Morgana stuff was included in the season opener didn’t really bother me that much when I first saw it, because I assumed that this was to imply that Agravaine would become important later. That scene that he has with Gwen in his chambers was definitely weird, but I always saw it as him trying to gauge whether Gwen is a legitimate threat or not. He has probably noticed that Arthur is in love with her and he is aware that Morgana has dreamed about her sitting on the throne of Camelot, so I assumed that their little meeting in his chambers was meant to sus out what Gwen’s deal was. After seeing that she is wiser than he initially gave her credit for, he probably does see her as a threat to his and Morgana’s scheme.
Regarding Morgana’s motives, she seems to still have it in her head that becoming queen of Camelot is the only way that magic users/people born with magic can be freed from their oppression. I wonder how true this is, though. If this was truly her motive, you would think that the first thing she would have done as queen in season 3 was legalizing magic (rather than slaughtering civilians). So is she just on a power trip now and trying to use the “free magic users” thing as an excuse? Who knows – I really wish her arc had been better handled. I loved her as a character in season 1 and Katie McGrath’s acting is terrific. It’s just such a shame that Morgana’s entire character and storyline is so poorly handled.
28th February 2021 @ 11:53 pm
Welcome Anjali!
I completely agree, the emotional beats in this double episode, season 4 in general, and all of Merlin really is absolutely what makes us still talk about this show over 10 years later. It’s one of those TV shows where you realise that so much of the emotional truth of its whole is so much better than the sum of it’s part, and so very much better than it had any need to be, and occasionally in the really frustrating episodes, that it had any right to be lol
I don’t know whether you are familiar with Shadowhunters, but there’s a character in Shadowhunters that to me reads almost identical to Agravaine, in that he’s confusing, seems to be evil for no clear reasons, and every time you feel like you’ve discovered a reason the show changes it or does something that makes you realise that no, that doesn’t make any sense, as you’ve just destroyed my through line on that thought… back to the drawing board. And both the characters have this uncomfortable underlying sleaziness, that isn’t ever explicitedly stated, but so clearly there for at least part of their time on screen that it makes you feel like that’s the motivation all along, but becaus the text never says it, it doesn’t really work as an explicit motive for their actions, either. so yeah, all I end up with is a big ball of confusion and also GRRRR.
Regarding Morgana, I really wish that they had given her the really straight forward reason of wanting to not have to live in fear and wanting herself and people like her to be free and no longer be hunted, and then twisted that motive into something more revengeful and messed up through all of her experiences and how she’s suffered at Uther’s hands, and leaning into the poetic justice that in spite of all of her hatred for him, she did turn out to be her father’s daughter after all, and all she has left now is this vendatta that she is relentlessly persuing, completely blindly, while ignoring her original goal, and causing so much more suffering for innocent people – magic and non magic – in the process.
sadly they just never quite… manage š
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 3:28 am
Is it what’s-his-face the warlock from Hamilton that you’re referring to? From Shadowhunters? That’s a super interesting comparison…!
1st March 2021 @ 11:50 am
oooooh. I hadn’t actually made that comparison, and yeah, there might be something there, too. but I was refering to Aldertree (they even have basically the same name!! lol)
1st March 2021 @ 1:18 pm
Agravaine’s non-existent motivation is so frustrating!
Throughout the whole season I kept wondering why he puts up with Morgana. She’s never happy with him and treats him like dirt. Half of the time it looked to me like Agravaine didn’t want to be by her side but was just scared? He looks miserable when he is with her and I’m even more confused now that you said he might have been in love with Morgana (I’ll be on the look out for that going forward in the rewatch).
I don’t understand why he supports her or her cause. I was basically just waiting for him to drop her but he never does.
2nd March 2021 @ 2:10 am
She really does treat him like dirt…. but I still think he is lusting after her! That is really the only way I can make sense of his role. This might be a spoiler…. but do you remember that creepy scene where he is like watching her sleep or something??
2nd March 2021 @ 11:35 am
oooh yeah I forgot about that. My brain just deleted that scene.
It’s odd because we’re not really given any reason for anything when it comes to him, so we also don’t get anything to understand why he’s lusting after her. But he’s just so creepy in general it doesn’t seem too off, I guess.
I really need to have a better look during the rewatch because I didn’t notice a lot regarding Agravaine (trying to ignore his existence) for me to have any more detailed thoughts on that.
28th February 2021 @ 7:10 pm
Hello! Iāve been listening to D&C for a month or two now, catching up for when Season 4 starts and here it is! Hooray! Iāve loved listening, thanks so much to Ruth and Michelle for the insightful and interesting and often very funny criticism. Season 4 and 5 weāre probably the hardest to watch, for me, so Iām really looking forward to them being ripped to shreds. In a good way!
No comments about the episodes from me this time, maybe Iāll have something interesting to say in the future š In the meantime, Iām so enjoying everyone elseās analyses. Yay!
28th February 2021 @ 9:59 pm
you caught up in time!!! that’s some seriously solid work, well done! hahaha
I mean personally I’m hoping we’re not going to be ripping 26 episodes to shreds, because there is good stuff there, and also, I don’t think our hearts could take it! But yeah, sadly this is where the show is just… spiralling out of control a little bit. But it’s been a while, and who knows? maybe we’ll be positively surprised all of a sudden!!!
M Xx
28th February 2021 @ 5:43 pm
Iām so excited that you guys are back!
I agree 100% that the episode was over-stuffed. I also hate everything they did with Agravaine and all of its knock-on effects for Gwen and other characters. I wonāt dwell on that!
One thing I liked about the about-to-die scene between Merlin and Arthur (which I agree was overall a bit rubbish) was the parallel between seasonā¦1? When Arthur tells Merlin that if they werenāt prince and servant then āI think weād probably get onā ā itās echoed in Merlinās āweād have been good friendsā in this episode, but with less distance.
Something that I found difficult about the (otherwise beautiful) funeral scene was that I couldnāt help but remember that Merlin was going to sacrifice himself and he indicated this to Arthur, but Arthur only seems to remember Lancelotās sacrifice. Itās tricky because I believe the scene SHOULD be just about Lancelot, and to bring up Merlin there would be utterly inappropriate and weirdā¦ but Arthur knows that Merlin was at least considering it, and for us as viewers Merlinās attempt to sacrifice himself is pretty important. It might have been partly helped if Merlin hadnāt ever mentioned his intention to Arthur, but then weād have lost the āa good servant is hard to come byā line, and the audience would still have Merlinās plans echoing in our heads when Arthur talks about Lancelotās actions (or at least I would!). Itās not that I think Merlin should have been recognized by Arthur for his plans, itās just a weird tonal thing that I find kind of uncomfortable.
28th February 2021 @ 10:06 pm
actually really interesting that I was reading your comment and genuinly found myself going ‘when did Merlin tell Arthur?’ and I just couldn’t figure it out, so very glad that you quoted the ‘a good servan is hard to come by’ part of the conversation because it helped me clock that OF COURSE he says goodbye to Arthur at that point, but then he goes and sacrifices himself, and then miraculously doesn’t die, so in my head, that was kind of done and completely separate from the second ongoing plan to sacrifice himself, which of course Arthur is then unconcious for, so has (as usual) no idea that was actually going on. So I wonder whether in Arthur’s head, that was also done and dusted. whereas, yeah, I totally see how that rings weird for you, if you’ve still got that echoing in your mind.
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 8:31 am
Yeah, I just checked the transcipt and this is where I was referring to:
MERLIN
You don’t have to sacrifice yourself.
ARTHUR
To save my people.
MERLIN
I will take your place.
ARTHUR (shakes head)
Merlin.
MERLIN
What is the life of a servant compared to that of a prince?
ARTHUR
Well, a good servant’s hard to come by.
So, “I will take your place” is pretty blatant and while I can totally forgive Arthur brushing past it (especially after Arthur has said “Look after Guinevere,” and Merlin has responded “Don’t worry. I’ll make sure,” which Arthur obviously wouldn’t have interpreted the way the audience do) it’s way too significant for the final scene not to ring weird!
1st March 2021 @ 12:05 pm
oh they are literally talking about the veil. how weird, that just totally blended into something else in my memory lol you’re absolutely right!
I guess Arthur does literally just take it as ‘merlin, don’t be stupid, of course you’re not going to do that, and I won’t let you, so it’s not even worth talking about’… and clearly, not worth remembering, either =/
1st March 2021 @ 12:47 pm
it’s odd that this isn’t commented on again. Merlin literally admits to thinking of sacrificing himself and I can’t help but think that Arthur must have thought about it again when he realised what Lancelot did.
It’s difficult to incorporate, like you said, without it being inappropriate concerning Lancelot’s death. I think we could have used another scene (maybe a while after the funeral?) in which Arthur talks to Merlin about it. Along the lines “Lancelot did what you said you would”. That the greatness of what Merlin was ready to do for him becomes clear to him. It would have been a complicated conversation to pull off right, but it must have been more meaningful to Arthur than what the episode leads us to believe.
2nd March 2021 @ 8:32 pm
Absolutely, it would have been really difficult to incorporate but I feel like the episode is almost incomplete without some acknowledgement of it, even just a conversation like you suggest – I feel like it would have to come before Lancelot’s funeral, because that should still be the thing we end on and come away thinking about in my opinion. I mean, I guess we did get Lancelot acknowledging the weight of Merlin’s intentions and then Arthur honouring Lancelot, so it’s not like Merlin was ignored in the writing, it just feels weird.
28th February 2021 @ 4:24 pm
Hello! I’m just jumping in here with a shortish comment to let you all know how nice it is to have you back after your hiatus, which I hope you enjoyed. On the whole, season 4 is my favourite season of the show so it’ll be interesting to see how it ends up on the list of destiny generally. Saying that, I feel like it’s best viewed while trying to think about Agravaine as little as possible. No shade to Nathaniel Parker who does his best but Agravaine is the worst and most pointless character of the entire series. His only clear motivation throughout (to me anyway) is that he wants to get in Morgana’s panties and is just so consistently creepy for no reason.
You mentioned that there are a lot of deleted scenes for these episodes and there is one in particular I wanted to mention, where Arthur gives Merlin his mother’s sigil as a gift. It has some of the same dialogue from the scene before Merlin gets Dorocha’d (i.e. “you never fathomed me out”) which perhaps sheds light on why the scene in the episode feels so weird. I suspect they filmed this deleted scene first and then had to go back and re-write/shoot the other scene while shoehorning in the dialogue for whatever reason. Personally I think the material from the deleted scene is one of the most touching moments between the two of them and I’m gutted it never made it in, though I can understand why as it doesn’t really fit with the rest of the episode. I just wanted to mention in case anyone hasn’t seen it, as it’s so precious! Link below…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7Q1nOjQZo
28th February 2021 @ 4:42 pm
Hi Natalie, completely agree about the deleted scene! It’s such a great moment between Merlin and Arthur and would have really taken their relationship/our understanding of Arthur’s appreciation for Merlin to a new level. No idea why they couldn’t keep it in and simply write other, better lines for the Dorocha scene.
Whether it’s in the episode or not, in my head, Merlin was given Ygraine’s sigil and carries it with him always as the most precious gift Arthur ever gave him!
28th February 2021 @ 10:11 pm
and he clearly does, because we’ll see the sigil again in this season… dududududududu
M Xx
28th February 2021 @ 10:53 pm
Do we? I can’t remember. Exciting!
28th February 2021 @ 11:42 pm
it’s not talked about or anything and I’m now worrying that I’m over selling it, but clearly MERLIN HAS IT AND HAS KEPT IT SAFE!!!
28th February 2021 @ 11:52 pm
Oh, this is so intriguing. I’m going to have to pay extra-close attention.
1st March 2021 @ 1:56 pm
I didn’t remember this at all but I’m SO HAPPY
28th February 2021 @ 4:48 pm
I didn’t realise this was the episode the deleted scene came from! I don’t think it would have fit in tonally (though I’m not sure 100% why I feel that – maybe because Arthur survives?) but I wish that it was included somewhere in the show…
28th February 2021 @ 5:10 pm
I wonder when in these epsiodes the scene was meant to happen. Maybe that first night away from Camelot when they camped in the forest? Or this could have been a great conversation in the courtyard between realising that they don’t have enough firewood and Arthur and Merlin setting out to find more. Perhaps this could even have worked well as an extension to the log scene – in fact, that’s probably the reason they cut it, because that second scene is so very similar. BUT, darn it, I want Arthur to give Merlin his mother’s sigil!!!
28th February 2021 @ 5:30 pm
People in the comments of the video are talking about it as a symbol of Arthur making Merlin part of the Royal family, or at least giving him some kind of legitimacy or official status. From that you could read it as an extension of Arthur’s farewell tour scenes with Uther and Gwen. He’s expecting to die, so he’s making sure Merlin has some status and will be looked after when he’s gone.
I absolutely headcanon this moment as having happened too! I don’t care that they cut it, they can pry it from my cold, dead hands…
28th February 2021 @ 5:41 pm
Same! Let’s hold on to that sigil moment – we won’t release it even in death! Let them come and try! (They should keep in mind, that after death, we both might become very vicious Dorocha…)
3rd March 2021 @ 3:27 pm
Totally agree – I love the scene in and of itself, a really beautiful moment, but I don’t think it would have fit here at all, mostly I think because the intimacy in the cut scene is so much more intense than what we get elsewhere in the double I think it would have felt discordant.
28th February 2021 @ 10:14 pm
thanks for linking that! I was convinced the sigil scene was in this episode, but didn’t actually go to watch any deleted scenes around the time we took our notes and recorded the episode, and in my memory it was in the in episode ‘fathomed’ scene, and I couldn’t see a way in which that could have possibly fit, so it didn’t make any sense.. but yes, it’s an entirely different scene, and you’re absolutely right, the fact that they made bradley and colin re-shoot that scene, but somewhere else, with cut and pasted dialogue is very much a justification for why it feels so very weird. hmmmm. grumpy now.
M Xx
27th February 2021 @ 2:48 pm
I am so glad youāre back and hope you had a lovely hiatus! Thank you for yet again another great and interesting episode, really made me think! Not surprised at all that I missed pretty much every plot hole, but though I do actually really like these episodes, there were MANY moments which felt weird, and when you pointed out why, my brain went ohhhhhh that makes so much sense.
Okay general thoughts – I think maybe the problem with these ambitious storylines to Ā«Ā start of the season with a bang! Ā» is that they also have to reintroduce the characters, the relationships at the same time, and when trying to do both, both end up a bit under baked – hence some of the plot points arenāt particularly tight and we get the ācardboard cut outā knights. Honestly, the most egregious for me is Gwaine: it makes me so sad and uncomfortable to see him reduced to THAT. I donāt know if weāll ever see Season 3 Gwaine again, but Iām really hoping so, even if itās just one more time. It sort of reminds me of Morgana – she was made the comic book villain last season with the evil smirks and her previous complicated and interesting character completely vanished then, too.
I actually really did enjoy quite a lot of these episodes, though, and I lovvvvve the Merlin and Lancelot interaction we get. I also love the delivery of John Hurts line: it will be an empty world without you, young warlock. We donāt ever, really, get a sense of the dragon caring about Merlin as a person, rather than a tool to bring about Destiny, but this feels really genuine to me and almost as though itās a breath before the hard stuff – even Kilgarrah, probably the most driven to do destiny, recognises how much this is to ask of Merlin, and how much he might need to hear that he will be missed. I think something this episode does do well is acknowledge the profundity of Arthur, Merlin and Lancelotās decisions, and treat them each with significance though only Lancelotās is seen through. I do like the sense we get of each of them becoming absolutely convinced in their decision and determined to do it, and, like you said, itās not the Once and Future King, or a Great Warlock, but a simple Knight who does it by simply walking round them. It places them in quite an interesting trio and I like that in the end, Lancelot is one who manages it, even though he isnāt āspecialā in the same way.
They refer quite a lot to his ānobilityā – Arthur in his memorial speech and the dragon in greeting – and I think that although he hasnāt got a great destiny or magic, this is his āspecialnessā. He is noble to a point where he is literally too noble for this world, as he canāt be that noble AND exist in this universe as he could never have let anyone else die when he could, regardless of the vow. And he literally goes through a portal to the other world! Which is an interesting idea as he could have just died a more mortal death. So maybe, itās this sort of unearthly nobility that makes him significant in the story, and his sacrifice for Albion, though he still remains very human and real, and I think thatās befitting of this famous figure of legend (he is kind of THE Knight). He has this simultaneous greatness and simplicity, in both his deed and his character, and I really love that.
I must take this moment to appreciate Bradleyās face – that sounds weird I promise this sentence is going somewhere – when he is about to sacrifice himself at the veil. He looks so accepting and determined but also really really scared. I feel like Arthur has moved forward to a much more emotional and open version of himself: he admits his fear to Merlin earlier and is so gentle with the girl in the council chambers.
And so so much credit to Angel and Colin at the memorial – Colinās expression and Angelās breakdown breaks my heart.
27th February 2021 @ 3:35 pm
“And he literally goes through a portal to the other world! Which is an interesting idea as he could have just died a more mortal death. So maybe, itās this sort of unearthly nobility that makes him significant in the story (…)”
Wow, that’s really, really neat! I really like the idea that Lancelot is so noble even his death is literally walking into the other world, rather than being “mundanely” killed… That’s some great piece of symbolism there!
27th February 2021 @ 8:47 pm
I think it must have been intentional, as it fits too perfectly otherwise! But regardless of whether it was or not, yeah! Even though the episodes might not have held up so well, Lancelot has a really good death that works with his character and does him justice, I think, which is sad but satisfying in the end.
28th February 2021 @ 4:47 pm
I agree with a lot of this, like Danuta, ESPECIALLY the significance of the fact that Lancelot doesn’t die an “ordinary” mortal death – it’s such an interesting contrast between the nature of his death and his approach to it.
28th February 2021 @ 8:59 pm
I hadnāt thought about the contrast between the two like that – thank you! – but you are right! Iāve just been thinking about Lancelot as a character regarding Maryās comment, and he is very different in many ways to the dramatic, otherworldly death he gets. That, I suppose, is what makes the simple walk round to this massive, ethereal veil so beautiful – itās reminiscent of dichotomy within his character: a simple peasant who has this inherent knightlyness.
1st March 2021 @ 8:34 am
Yes! and I just realised another parallel because of your comment – Lancelot’s simple approach to this magical death and his simple acceptance of Merlin’s magic!
2nd March 2021 @ 6:47 pm
Yay! More parallels! – something I do think the show handles really nicely on the whole actually. Your observation is brilliant, and I wonder if it says something interesting about Lancelot himself – he is quite practical? For all his grand sweeping gestures, he sees them, and similarly profound things such as Merlinās magic, as necessities and tools to bring about good.
2nd March 2021 @ 8:42 pm
Right! It’s interesting to see where both he and Arthur tend to have these really grand ideals about nobility and honour and such, but those ideals aren’t abstract, they’re based in their care for real people and a sense of duty to others, so when it comes down to it the right answer is often quite simple, or practical as you said. Whereas for Merlin, the “right thing to do” seemed so simple in season 1, but now that he’s been manipulated by this idea of destiny it’s much harder. His urge to sacrifice himself for Arthur here feels to me like a sort of darker call back to season 1: in season 1, he was ready to sacrifice himself for Arthur because of who Arthur was and because he couldn’t knowingly let someone else die if he could help it, whereas in this episode it’s a mixture of obligation to this awful destiny and self-hatred/lack of self worth (“What is the life of a servant compared to that of a prince?”) that makes this seem, to me, almost LESS noble and self-sacrificing than it would have been in season 1. It’s like… does it count as a sacrifice if you don’t value the thing you’re supposedly sacrificing? Or is that just discarding? I mean, there’s a reason the ancient Greeks and Romans sacrificed their best animals to the gods, not just any old meat! The fact that Lancelot didn’t want to die kind of makes his death more meaningful than Merlin’s would have been, in a way.
Sorry that was a tangent, the point is I agree with you and your comment made me think about things!
2nd March 2021 @ 10:47 pm
Oh my goodness do not apologise, I love everything you said…interesting interesting stuff! I hadnāt thought to compare the sacrifices, but you are so right! Merlinās DOES feel wrong on a fundamental level because he doesnāt actually value his life the way he used to so itās not really a sacrifice at all – wow. And when you hold it up to Lancelotās, it feels strangely hollow. Lancelot does seem to have come to a point where he acknowledges his nobility by acting on it – he denies the dragonās compliment but seems to accept it to be true with his sacrifice. But you are so right, in comparison to season 1 Merlin itās devastating to see who heās become. And with Arthur too – I always think one of the most tragic things about the show is how Arthur grows while Merlin withers away. Itās almost like Season 1 Merlin would fit into the trio of Lancelot and Arthur – all doing brave heroic deeds with, as you say, a practical approach that will consequently bring good because they understand that their life is worth that and sacrificing it will make it happen – but he has become warped by destiny to no longer value his life enough to actually make that positive difference? And if weāre going really far – heavy spoilers! – maybe thatās a factor to why the destiny doesnāt work out – he doesnāt appreciate his own worth as a human being, therefore itās easier for him to make that fatal choice in the Disir as he values Arthurās life more than his own rights and any chance of freedom? I feel like I just went on the biggest tangent ever haha!
2nd March 2021 @ 11:19 pm
-I always think one of the most tragic things about the show is how Arthur grows while Merlin withers away-
That’s the best way to describe their arcs, so true!
-And if weāre going really far ā heavy spoilers! ā maybe thatās a factor to why the destiny doesnāt work out ā he doesnāt appreciate his own worth as a human being, therefore itās easier for him to make that fatal choice in the Disir as he values Arthurās life more than his own rights and any chance of freedom?-
I agree!
3rd March 2021 @ 4:40 am
-I always think one of the most tragic things about the show is how Arthur grows while Merlin withers away-
Oh man! Tag-line! š
SPOILER!
Also, I feel like this still holds true when we consider their respective ends. Arthur will never be forgotten because of his ideals and kingship. People mourn him and wait for him.
Merlin just kind of… leaves the story and no one seems to miss him. His lack of self worth also prevents him from going back to a life where he still has friends and purpose and he “sacrifices” /discards himself through isolation and waiting.
3rd March 2021 @ 2:09 pm
Precisely!! Itās like destiny is self-defeating if you no longer have the energy to will it into being or something. Merlin āwithering awayā is such a heartbreakingly accurate way of describing the ending, wow…
3rd March 2021 @ 3:45 pm
Weāve talked about it quite a lot on here, but I wonder if we can link this into his humanity or lack thereof…along with his morally ambiguous deeds, maybe itās this depreciation in self value as a human being that really drives that. And maybe itās why he doesnāt ever get to do that big flourishing sacrifice and his ending, as you say, is just fading into the obscurity with his immortality that may be somewhat self created.
And Iām sorry for making everybody so sad!! Itās just all too tragicš I know Iāll be sobbing come season 5…
3rd March 2021 @ 6:51 pm
Oh no, that totally makes sense. Merlin’s destiny, the positive aspects of it at least, is maybe contingent on him being human – humane, and a human /being/ not just a humanoid vessel for what destiny wants him to /do/. And so as Merlin denies his own humanity in favour of his (perceived) destiny, both his humanity and his chances at actually achieving what he and Arthur are ‘destined’ to wither away. I don’t know if that makes sense, sorry!
3rd March 2021 @ 8:28 pm
Donāt worry, it totally does! Itās like he thinks by distancing himself from humanity and making himself less feeling and emotionally affected, heāll be able to make the hard choices. Cycling back to the sacrifice, maybe heās deliberately trying to make things easier for himself by thinking of himself as a āworthless servantā and throwing away his life isnāt so difficult. But then just as you said before, the meaning and courage and honour of it is lost, and it all becomes empty. Gosh, thats sad. Argh – this show!
28th February 2021 @ 5:04 pm
Hi Kirsty. Thank you for such interesting thoughts. I have written something about characters being ‘special’ in order to be worthy of their destiny in my own write-in and when I read yours, I wanted to comment again. I like both the unassuming simplicity with which Lancelot sacrifices himself (in some way making the claim that, of course, that’s what you have to do and why make a big fuss?) but also this otherwordly nobility you mention. Now, for Arthur and Merlin, it is obviously destiny and their birth/magical ability that marks them as special and gives them their place within the story. What is disturbing to me is how few characters we get that make an impact/are worthy being part of the destiny that aren’t special. Lancelot would be a great contender for that, actually, since he is not of noble birth and his fighting talent has been built up through training. But if we say that Lancelot possesses some otherwordly nobility, then again that’s characters having to be special in order to matter. I don’t like that. I wish we had more ordinary/non-special people able to matter or make an impact.
28th February 2021 @ 8:52 pm
I love your comments – you always make me think of something I would never have even considered before! I must agree – Lancelot is a character who, from his introduction, is presented as simple and honest, a hufflepuff as Ruth and Michelle say! And yes, gifting him this āspecialā nobility as though it is a power, like Merlinās maybe, does detract from that. I wonder whether maybe if thinking of it as being ethereal and unearthly is wrong then, at least if we want to him to remain true to the hardworking, straightforward character he is. His nobility is clearly inherent to his self – it doesnāt seem to be something heās learnt, and the show presents it as a contrast to the false ānobilityā of Lords and Ladies etc who are more privileged than Lancelot. So perhaps instead of thinking of it as a āblessingā, we think of it as something he chooses to act on and give him more agency in that, it becomes less problematic? For example, he makes the choice to fight the Griffin, to remove himself and deny himself happiness with Gwen for her and Arthur (despite the ambiguity with that one!), and here to sacrifice himself for Camelot – here it is even more clear as he goes through an arc of coming to that decision. So rather than him being blessed and special, itās his honest, selfless and difficult decisions that take courage that are why he is legendary; he himself creates this great nobility by choosing it over the easier options? And even though they feel very natural decisions for his character to make, this final one does imply that they werenāt necessarily easy and he does have to come to a realisation before he does it – even if the arc wasnāt the most clean! Honestly I feel like that made no sense whatsoever, think I was constantly contradicting myself and didnāt get anywhere! And I completely agree that we need more ordinary people who have significance – I wonder if Gwen can be that in anyway, as she doesnāt seem to be destined as far as we know, and does become Queen and will obviously at the end of the show have a particularly important role? But the unfortunate thing with that is that she gets there by just being in love with Arthur and by no skill or work towards it of her own – while romantically ideal, not great for one of few female characters.
28th February 2021 @ 10:29 pm
I think with Gwen, that’s exactly what they were trying to do by giving her moments such as the one in this episode with Agravain. Standing up for the people, understanding the fears and worries of the common folk, and not being scared to speak her mind, even when faced with nobler people than herself… which should all be positive. it’s just kind of unfortunate that they choose… inappropriate moments to do so, maybe? I’m desperately trying to remember what else we’re going to get from her this season, and utterly failing, but that will definitely be one to keep an eye on!
2nd March 2021 @ 6:17 pm
Ahhhh yes of course, thank you for pointing it out! I think a lot of those moments do/will work, and somewhat solve the female character problem we have with her – it is sad that this one couldnāt have more impact in the overall plot, but I actually do really like the moment itself. It feels quite in character for Gwen, but with the subtle difference of her growing confidence. Same as you, I really canāt remember all that well what we have in store for her, but I hope we get some more moments like that that fit better into the story.
1st March 2021 @ 11:40 am
You were making complete sense, don’t worry!
I think Gwen for me is also the most ‘ordinary’ (i.e. born without special pedigree, powers or destiny) character in the show yet she still counts and makes a difference. At least up to 3.10: Then, sadly, we learn that Gwen is destined to marry Arthur through Morgana’s dream. Okay, you may argue that this wasn’t destiny but merely future showing this to Morgana. Only (SPOILERS!) Merlin in 4.11 actually says ‘It is Arthur’s fate to marry Gwen.’ Now, when that episode comes around, I will have questions about the origins of this statement and the use of the word ‘fate’ instead of ‘destiny’. But that kind of takes the ‘ordinary girl that simply matters because she is who she is and acts to do good’ away from Gwen, making her ‘fated’ to be this way and end up where she ends up. Which is really sad and frustrating! Again, what lesson did the show want us to take away from this?
2nd March 2021 @ 6:31 pm
Oh, good! Thatās a relief haha! Thatās a really good catch, yes I remember thinking that was a bit odd at the time, especially coming from Merlin – how on Earth does he know this?! I wonder if weāre really trying to make it work, we could just take it as Merlin using the language casually to say how much he wants them to be together (hardcore Arwen shipper as he is haha) but thatās not textual and it would make the writing seem lazy, especially considering the significance of Fate in the show. But what Iāve always really loved about Gwen is how āordinaryā she is, as you say – she is a part of Camelot and itās community in a way that Arthur/Merlin/Uther could never be, and that would be so lovely if her connection to that was what made her this legendary Queen – or rather, if it was consistent. But then again, maybe like you say the word fate changes things – perhaps itās because of her nature and actions, this will happen; perhaps the fate comes about because she is good, not the other way round. Destiny seems to mean something greater, something unearthly and wonderful as we said before, but maybe we can take fate to mean something that simply occurs, and therefore a consequence of the things we as people are and do? But then Iām not sure if thatās completely contradicting the meaning of fate – argh!š
28th February 2021 @ 10:21 pm
— I do actually really like these episodes, there were MANY moments which felt weird, and when you pointed out why, my brain went ohhhhhh that makes so much sense.–
honestly, i felt exactly the same. I remember the dorocha episodes being huge and scary and dark and I really enjoyed them at the time, and it really was only on rewatching and talking about it that they made less and less sense lol
— I donāt know if weāll ever see Season 3 Gwaine again, but Iām really hoping so, even if itās just one more time. —
same! I really hope that he’ll return, if only for a bit.. and honestly, I can only think of a end of season 5 moment, that certainly in my memory, is very “proper gwaine”, but I really hope there’s more to come inbetween!!!
–I also love the delivery of John Hurts line: it will be an empty world without you, young warlock. We donāt ever, really, get a sense of the dragon caring about Merlin as a person, rather than a tool to bring about Destiny, but this feels really genuine to me–
completely agree!! This seems a huge turning point for the dragon and the relationship between merlin and kilgarrah, and I feel like it’s also here where we finally get to leave behind the uncomfortable consent issues from the end of season 3. I could be wrong, and I may be sad to discover that I was as we move forward, but I remember this as a very different relationship, and I feel like it also very much hold up going into episode 4, where their relationship continues to be very… balanced and even I guess? here’s hoping I’m remembering this correctly!
NEVER apologise for simply appreciating Bradley’s face! hahaha
M Xx
2nd March 2021 @ 6:41 pm
Seeing the word Dorocha reminds me – when you said you but on a really bad day, I didnāt get the joke at first and stupidly thought you were just insulting Ruth hahaš – did think it was a bit harshš!
As to the dragon, yay!! Exciting things! I remember finishing the show and actually feeling quite sentimental about Kilgarrah, or at least about the relationship with Merlin and then being confused when I started again…so hopefully! There certainly seems to be mutual respect here, and Merlin even calls him old friend. Regardless of the ups and downs of their relationship, they have been through quite a lot together and I suppose there is something in the dragon being the only one who really understands the destiny and what it is to have so much power.
2nd March 2021 @ 10:06 pm
hahaha I just had to call Ruth (who’s upstairs, many floors away) to tell her about that, and we both had a good laugh, so thank you š š
M Xx
27th February 2021 @ 1:39 pm
I discovered the podcast when I was watching Merlin for the first time 2 months ago so now is the first time being able to comment about an episode. I got to say Iām intimidated knowing how awfully smart you all are. But Iāll just be going for it and see how it goes. Iām just happy to be able to talk about Merlin!
Something I kept noticing in this episode that it looked like they tried to parallel Lancelot and Arthurās relationship with Merlin.
It is immediately shown to us that Lancelot and Merlin have grown to be close friends in the year between seasons. The shirt scene in the hallway for example or when Lancelot is the one to run up to Merlin when he faints. He has taken the primary friend role.
And this is where I get to my point: it feels like they had to kill Lancelot off because there were two close friends for Merlin now and it would have taken the focus off Arthur.
When Merlin faints, as you also said in the podcast, Arthurās reaction is completely sidetracked. This is the complete opposite to what weāve known. Just look at the poisoned chalice for example. Arthur is always the one to be there by Merlinās side when something happens to him. However, now it is Lancelot fulfilling that role.
And then Merlin is paired up with Lancelot a lot more than Arthur. We started seeing this in the season 3 finale and we see it again in this opener. They are together in the dead village. A mission where weād usually see Merlin by Arthurās side.
At the end of the first episode the parallel is visualized again by having both Lancelot and Arthur by Merlinās side when he is unconscious on the ground. The other knights stand back while the two of them are there, both equally worried. Itās just about the two of them and their relationship with Merlin, not of the other knights even though Gwaine is also Merlinās friend (which we donāt really see this opener anyway).
With the start of episode 2 we really see how Lancelot being there can rip Merlin and Arthur apart. Itās obvious Arthur wants to drop everything and do anything in his power to be stay with Merlin and somehow make sure heāll be alright. However, to Arthurās great pain, he leaves Merlin in Lancelotās hands. Lancelot literally parts them. Arthur wouldnāt have left Merlin otherwise.
Itās so beautiful to see Merlin be able to use magic openly. You see his face light up with it. He deserves it so much and it makes his face almost glow up with happiness. Heās finally able to share this huge part of himself with someone. More importantly, he can share it with a friend. He can be completely open like he canāt be with Arthur. It really could have been a threat to have this heavy contrast if Lancelot were to stay longer, because with this openness and trust there is a big chance that Merlin grows closer to Lancelot than he does to Arthur.
As you established before, the show is really bad at focusing on anything other than Merlin and Arthur. And this causes Merlin to āchooseā one of the two, because apparently he canāt have both.
In this way he mirrors Gwen. He isnāt given a choice whether he wants to be with Arthur or Lancelot. Lancelot decides that for him. Merlin is forced to be stay closest to Arthur. Heās the only one he can have a deep bond with.
Iām not entirely sure why they pulled up these parallels other than to justify Lancelotās death. They were like ālook how Lancelot sidetracks Arthurās relationship with Merlin! You donāt want that, right? Thatās why he needs to go.ā
Maybe I also just completely imagined this parallel and itās not there, but once I first thought of it, it kept noticing it so I wanted to see where Iād get with that.
Some more little things:
Can they please get Gwen a dress that fits properly? I started noticing it this season and ever since I canāt unsee it. Her left boob always looks like itās about to pop out. Itās very distracting once I noticed and I really wasnāt planning on being distracted by a boob, but here we are.
Itās the season of being aggravated by Agrevaine. I wonāt get into it a lot because Iāll just rant on about everything he does this season. I just really donāt want him to be there. Itās infuriating to think how much better off Camelot would have been in that first period in Arthurās lead if he wasnāt there.
Why does Arthur trust him anyway? Weāre given no reason why Arthur trusts him so much. When he says he doesnāt trust anyone more I felt hurt on behalf of everyone whoās consistently been on Arthurās side the past few years. Whether that is Merlin, Leon or Gwen.
Why does he listen to all his advice, a man he hadnāt been in contact with the recent years but not the ones he is closest to?
I also find it surprising how fast Morgana gains strength. We know her from the moment she blew up a candle with no control and now she is starting to become really powerful. Her progress is striking, because we have barely seen any improvement on Merlinās power. At least not this obvious. One might almost think that with enough time Morgana would be able to become more powerful than Merlin.
I also need to comment on Merlin conjuring a lot of light in the middle of a dark village surrounded by Camelot knights. How does no one notice that? Merlin is an idiot for doing it and the knights are idiots for not noticing it.
How is it anyway that a bunch of the most skilled knights are the most chaotic group ever? But I canāt get myself to mind too much because I love them.
At this point I feel like Merlin and Arthur trying to sacrifice themselves for each other lost all power because weāve seen them do it so often and both survive every time.
They drag this āIāll sacrifice myself for youā out so much anyway while it becomes clear (at the latest) from the moment after the dragon that it will be Lancelot. This trope is used so often and is so predictable, it just doesnāt work for me.
The only reason you doubt it is because Lancelot is such a big name in the legends that surely he wonāt die already? But he does and when I first watched it I was so confused thinking there was so much more he had to do.
Ending on fun note about my stupidity: When I first watched Merlin I was unable to tell Gwaine and Lancelot apart. Throughout the whole fisherking episode I thought Gwaine knew about Merlinās magic because Lancelot did and I somehow mixed it up. In this episode I thought Lancelot was Gwaine for quite a long time and was happy that āGwaineā got a haircut so I could tell them apart. Then someone called him Lancelot and I was very confused and embarrassed. At least I can tell them apart now.
27th February 2021 @ 3:10 pm
Hi Denise, welcome! I am constantly blown away by how smart everyone is here too and am always nervous that what I say isnāt anywhere near the standard, but everyone is exceptionally lovely and your right, itās so wonderful to have a space to talk about Merlin. Your idea of Lancelot having to be killed off before he replaces Arthur is really interesting and wow, that makes so much sense. Iāve never thought about it like that before, so thank you for pointing it out! In the past heās been whisked away before his relationship with Merlin could really develop, but now that heās been there a year he seems to have taken a much more prominent role in Merlinās life, and your right, itās definitely an extension from the Coming of Arthur. I wonder if destiny has anything to do with Lancelotās removal – if Merlin had drifted too far from Arthurās side, it might have affected their ātwo sides of the same coinā. And you make an intriguing point about Gwen – I really like your idea of Lancelot being the underdog in the both Merlinās friendship, and Gwenās romance – it makes me think even more that maybe Destiny doesnāt āapproveā of Lancelot, because heās not the shiny destined golden King of Albion?
Also – I am CONSTANTLY doing things like that, but Lancelot and Gwaine are very similar: same hair, friends with Merlin, tragic backstory, good with a sword, even their introductory episodes are practically the same!
27th February 2021 @ 4:10 pm
Getting destiny into it is a really interesting idea and definitely makes sense. It is a shame that Merlin canāt have more than one person close to him in his life, especially after seeing how beautiful the friendship between Lancelot and Merlin was. Yet destiny is determined to keep him focused on Arthur. Obviously Merlin isnāt unhappy to be by Arthurās side but this makes destiny cruel for taking everything else away from Merlin.
Destiny is just as cruel to Lancelot, forcing him away from the people he cares about. Like you say, destiny doesnāt approve of him because the people he wants to get closer to and form a meaningful relationship with are also the people who have an important role in the destiny of Arthur and Albion.
28th February 2021 @ 4:38 pm
I’m going to comment on this as well as I in general have a very low opinion of Destiny in the show. I think it’s the show’s actual villian. I think everything you have said about Merlin needing to stay focused on Arthur/Destiny is absolutely plausible, seeing that everyone who comes anywhere close to a deeper relationship with Merlin has to die (Freya, Balinor, Lancelot), is for some reason out of the picture (Hunith) or functions mainly as exposition/plot device or simply another side of Merlin himself (Gaius). I wonder if Destiny exploits Merlin’s ability to see goodness in people, be kind and make friends as some kind of bait to lure people in to then destroy them when they come to close. Apparently, in this Destiny, there is only space for two (Arthur & Merlin) and while many others are attracted to this Destiny, it ultimately becomes their trap and doom.
I’m not so sure that Destiny can be blamed for Lancelot forcing himself away from those he loves though. After reading your comment about the parallels between Lancelot/Gwen and Lancelot/Merlin, I am quite angry at Lancelot for once again taking the decision away from other people it rests with. Okay, I get that here his decision saved Camelot and it was either Merlin or him. But I hated when he didn’t give Gwen the choice in 2.4. But I think that wasn’t so much Destiny as Lancelot’s own feeling of inadequacy and, somehow, Arthur’s superiority/significance as man and king. His opinions and actions merely coicide with Arthur’s Destiny.
28th February 2021 @ 10:46 pm
If Freya has taught us anything, it’s that Merlin can’t have nice things š
2nd March 2021 @ 2:17 am
I know I arrived to the party late and the Freya episode is long gone, but I never liked that one. I felt like the romance was rushed and I just didn’t believe it. (shrug)
27th February 2021 @ 3:51 pm
Wow, Denise! I think on a subconscious level I noticed Lancelot taking the place of Arthur in this episode because as soon as you pointed it out I was like āHuh! You are absolutely right!ā Makes me sad that Merlin loses the only friend he THINKS he can truly be himself with….
Do you think Merlin used his magic somewhat recklessly because deep down he wants people to know?
Itās a good thing I donāt have some great destiny where I have to keep this huge secret….I am horrible at secret keeping. I would probably had ended up telling Arthur long ago. For better or worse…..
27th February 2021 @ 4:17 pm
It also makes me so sad. Merlin was so happy to have Lancelot by his side and he deserved to have someone he could be completely open with. Looking forward to the rest of show Merlin could have used some moments of liberation with Lancelot in which he can exhale for a minute.
I think you could be right with your thought that Merlin subconsciously wants others to know. Deep down he must know that Arthur and the knights wouldnāt harm him if they find out. Lancelot is proof of that. Throughout the opener we see the liberation and happiness it brings Merlin to openly use magic with Lancelot around and why wouldnāt he want to have more of that? His secret is a constant burden, especially for someone for whom magic is such a big part of who he is.
28th February 2021 @ 10:48 pm
Britney would have had her head chopped off four episodes into season 1.
NOTED.
lol
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 1:33 am
100%! Show over! š¤£
Haha
28th February 2021 @ 10:44 pm
–I got to say Iām intimidated knowing how awfully smart you all are. But Iāll just be going for it and see how it goes. Iām just happy to be able to talk about Merlin!–
I can see from the follow on comments that you’ve already been thoroughly embraced into the website comment section madness haha but please also let me re-iterate that there’s no need to be intimidated. Half the time I read through the comments and all I do is go ‘ooooooh’ and ‘uuuuuuh’ because there’s so much discussion going on I hadn’t thought of, and one of the things I love about our listeners and everyone commenting here is that even when people disagree I’ve never seen any discussion become unpleasant in any way, which is amazing, considering this is the internet hahahaha
–Can they please get Gwen a dress that fits properly? I started noticing it this season and ever since I canāt unsee it. Her left boob always looks like itās about to pop out. Itās very distracting once I noticed and I really wasnāt planning on being distracted by a boob, but here we are.–
well that’s made absolutely sure that I will be playing veeeery close attention to Gwen’s cleavage going forward… haha I thank you in advance for what I’m sure will drive me mad, too, now that I’m going to pay attention to it lol
–I also find it surprising how fast Morgana gains strength. We know her from the moment she blew up a candle with no control and now she is starting to become really powerful. Her progress is striking, because we have barely seen any improvement on Merlinās power. At least not this obvious. One might almost think that with enough time Morgana would be able to become more powerful than Merlin.–
it’s such a shame that Morgana does all of her learning off screen, in the annual gaps between seasons, and therefore she can be as strong as the show wants her to be, whereas Merlin does all of his learning on screen, because he’s who the show focuses on, and therefore we see how little progress he’s making (or certainly it feels like he’s making), though mostly I do just think the show is incredibly inconsistent when it comes to people’s power. Which is a massive shame.
And I always think with any super natural show where you have to take into account the power various people have, that isn’t as simple as ‘can bench 500kg and run a 3 second mile’ it’s super hard to show clear demonstrations of power and clear limitations of power. And of course what you don’t want is to put a very clear limit on someone’s ability, in case you need them to have that ability at a later point. But one of the simnplest ways to have a powerful antagonist, and a protagonist that ultimately HAS to win, but has to struggle until they do, is to say that destruction is always easier than creation. It’s easier for Morgana to be powerful because all she does is blow stuff up. Anyone can smash a Lego Death Star, but it’s well hard to build one, as it were haha. And that way you can have a strong antagonist that is making life really hard for your hero, but ultimately, willpower, strength, cleverness, and persistance is what leads to the protagonist winning the day.
–The only reason you doubt it is because Lancelot is such a big name in the legends that surely he wonāt die already? But he does and when I first watched it I was so confused thinking there was so much more he had to do.–
and doesn’t that sort of summarise a lot of what we’re about to get into…. š
— In this episode I thought Lancelot was Gwaine for quite a long time and was happy that āGwaineā got a haircut so I could tell them apart. —
every time any character on television gets a hair cut, grows facial hair, or puts on some glasses I need to double check with Ruth whether they are still the character I think they are… and sometimes they are, and sometimes it’s just random extra number five and turns out I have no idea what anyone looks like, so I feel you! hahaha
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 12:28 pm
The people here definitely are super nice but I still can’t help be intimidated to say more because I’m scared to say something stupid. I have just watched the show once (other than the darkest hour, which I have rewatched for the podcast) and I’m still new so it’s easy to think that I don’t have a thorough enough view on the show. I really get my braincells going trying to keep up haha.
When it comes to the whole power discussion: what I found surprising is how much knowledge Morgana seems to collect. She’s able to use all these magical artefacts and knows about magical rituals. This season, with Morgause gone, she proves that she knows about these things on her own while Merlin still runs to Gaius most of the time when it comes to things like that (because he never reads that book like he said he would in the beginning of the show).
While Morgana mostly uses brute force, these intricate things she has knowledge of also portray power.
But yes, in the end the show doesn’t “define” power, which makes this conversation almost impossible to proof with any of the canon material. We just have to believe that what Merlin is the most powerful.
Additionally, it’s very difficult for the show to portray Merlin’s full power, given that he uses most of it in secret and has to keep it small in order to not be discovered.
You’ve said it many times before, but I just wish we got a better understanding on how magic works in this world.
Looking forward to the many irritations that come from them rushing through the arthurian material in the last two seasons…
It always makes me happy to hear you are just as useless as me the it comes to that. People can get a stubble of beard and I won’t recognise them. What even are faces anyway? It’s not unless I got positively obsessed with a certain actor that I’m able to recognise them regardless of what happened with facial hair and whatnot.
1st March 2021 @ 12:37 pm
the fact that Merlin is literally never shown to read that book after he gets it and says he will do nothing but study is probably one of my biggest pet peeves of the show. it’s so silly!! And all we’d need is that every time Arthur comes to fetch him or we start a show with merlin in his room, he had the book on his lap and then needed to quickly shove it under his pillow or something.
— This season, with Morgause gone, she proves that she knows about these things on her own while Merlin still runs to Gaius most of the time when it comes to things like that–
which brings me right back to the fact that they should have killed Gaius of in Season 3, and force Merlin to become a ‘young man’, as the title voice over now tells us, who does his own research and doesn’t have Gaius to fall back on at all times. And whenever the show needs him to have no solution, there’s always the dragon, so it wouldn’t put Merlin into a place where he would have to become all powerful over night or anything, it would just force him to stand on his own two feet, in a way that Morgana clearly had to, and has hugely benefitted from.
–It always makes me happy to hear you are just as useless as me the it comes to that. People can get a stubble of beard and I wonāt recognise them. What even are faces anyway? Itās not unless I got positively obsessed with a certain actor that Iām able to recognise them regardless of what happened with facial hair and whatnot.–
absolutely same. The first time I watched Black Sails with Ruth I was hugely puzzled by the introduction of two entirely new characters in what clearly seemed to be a backstory or a parallel story taking place in a different part of the world… that was somehow connected to our current story, but it didn’t make any sense to me… until I finally asked Ruth and she explained that it was a flashback to these two characters that we’ve had on screen for basically every single episode up to now, just that they have different hair and stuff…. SIGH.
it’s just a cross we have to bear, and a cross anyone that watched TV with us, has to help bear for us hahaha
1st March 2021 @ 1:59 pm
I agree, killing Gaius off would have made so much sense! I also think that would have been a beautiful opportunity to parallel Arthur and Merlin’s road to becoming independent, both of them loosing their father (figure). I think it would have offered so many beautiful emotional beats and allows Merlin and Arthur to grow closer.
And, of course, it allows Merlin to become more powerful and knowledgable, now that Gaius isn’t there to do it for him. He is smart and curious enough for him to be able to manage that additional responsibility. Season 4 (and 5) would have benefitted from Merlin knowing more about magic on his own and him growing up to be the young man he is supposed to be by now.
26th February 2021 @ 10:47 pm
Here’s a thought about Morgana seeing Merlin as his old self : ***spoiler alert***
Whenever Morgana deals with Merlin using magic in the future, he’s always disguised as his old self. It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure they cross paths on several occasions and even fight a couple times? Therefore for pretty much the rest of her life, she will always think of Emrys as the old man. Maybe that’s why she sees him as an old man in the vision, because that’s how she’s GOING TO see him all the time. Make sense? It works in my head.
28th February 2021 @ 2:55 pm
Altercations between Morgana and Emrys are definitely coming up! I actually saw the dream in these episodes as Morgana desperately trying to make sense of the Cailleach’s prophecy. I mean, Morgana had never heard of Emrys before and was probably racking her brain who this person was and why they would be her doom. I guess, like her, my mind would have tried to recognise someone from their past who had already crossed her plans before – for why would a person who didn’t know her and whom she didn’t know become her doom. And then she remembered that odd Dragoon person and her mind basically decided that only he could realistically have been Emrys as he was clearly powerful and had crossed her path before.
So, I see the dream as Morgana trying to make sense of the prophecy and connecting Dragoon with Emrys. And surprisingly, she gets it right – but not quite. š
28th February 2021 @ 10:50 pm
timey wimey logic! I like it!!
M Xx
26th February 2021 @ 10:43 pm
It’s the absolute WEIRDEST coincidence that I had no idea when you were going to start podcasting about Merlin again, and yesterday I realised I hadn’t thought to check since the fanfic podcast, so I popped onto the website and there’s the first episode dated that exact same day. Lol! Great thoughts as usual. You never ruin episodes for me, I think level of enjoyment and constructive criticism are two very independent things. I think the premieres and finales of Merlin are often the most enjoyable episodes, but I’m not overthinking what I’m watching at the time. It’s still fun to deconstruct everything too! I agree about Gwaine’s character though, he does have good moments but they’re so few and far between now. :/ The knights are great and I wish we saw their relationships with Arthur and Merlin more too.
28th February 2021 @ 10:51 pm
hah! like morgana, even though you didn’t know, on some level you clearly knew!!
M Xx
26th February 2021 @ 10:02 pm
You are back! I am so excited and glad and MAY have gone a little overboard with my commentary. Sorry but not sorry. I used to quite like āThe Darkest Hourā but re-watched it after listening to your podcasts and burst out laughing in so many places I had previously not noticed as ridiculous. It feels like the creators tried to create two Merlin episodes that contain everything old viewers ever loved and new viewers will love about Merlin. But the patchwork of successful bits never merges into a cohesive successful entity.
These are some things (helpfully subtitled) that I have taken away from these episodes:
The people in Camelot are disturbingly awful at being good human beings!
There are a lot of issues for me in the scene with the girl from the village that was attacked. I also agree that āIām Arthurā doesnāt work but what bothers me even more is that this tiny girl (in size, not in age) that is clearly scared out of her wits and crying, is surrounded by all these really tall men, staring at her like some weird predators. There are even two knights in the background, half turned away, whispering and shaking their heads as if they donāt believe the witness and mock her dramatics. No one looks after her medicinally (Gaius just gives her a hug at the end?) or even has her sit down. Where did the table and chairs go? āIām Arthurā seems phoney because if Arthur really cared about calming her down, heād lead her to somewhere less intimidating and offer her a hot drink!
In the podcast, you have already pointed this out but the scene with the girl is sadly linked to Merlin collapsing at the feast. I HATE that Arthur rolls his eyes! Later on, we are to believe that he is terribly worried for him when his supposed friend is nearly killed by the Dorocha. Here, he seems to treat him as no more than an incompetent servant that ruined his speech. How is that in any way consistent with their relationship in these episodes or with the lovely, sensitive, mature and concerned Arthur that we get with Uther and Gwen?
In fact, anyone fails to act or react normally to anything in Camelot. Merlin is Arthurās manservant and we have seen him fetch food for him many times. So why is the cook asking Merlin what he is doing in the kitchen? Shortly afterwards, a servant spills wine on the Princeās shirt, which he would have recognised since his manservant is carrying it, and the guy just keeps walking without so much as an apology? Finally, and this I find the most egregious, what parents leave their small children out in the dark with Dorocha on the loose and donāt bother picking up a torch to look for them? Too selfish? Did they even notice that their children were missing? Did they care? Their reactions indicate that they did not since they greet their children as if they hadnāt been worried about their welfare at all!
Merlin has a death wish.
Merlin uses magic so often in sight of any number of possible observers (or discusses it with Gaius in a hall with open doors where anyone can overhear), I am wondering whether Merlin doesnāt have some sort of secret death wish. Turns out, he does, because he seems to jump at the opportunity to take Arthurās place ā and he jumps in front of the Dorocha too, even though it makes no sense at all. A minute ago, he promised Arthur that they would defeat the Dorocha together. That canāt happen if he is dead. Also, isnāt Merlin wanting to take Arthurās place on the Isle? How is he to do that when he dies here ā because then Arthur will sacrifice himself a little later and die anyway. Why does Merlin think that jumping in front of the Dorocha will stop that same Dorocha from attacking Arthur after he has died? Can the Dorocha only āeatā one person at a time? Do they get a stomach ache ā or, seeing that they only have heads, a headache ā if they eat too much in one go? Was this in one of Gaiusā books?
Also, as far as I can see, there are lots of dry leaves and broken bits of woods in the chamber where Arthur and Merlin are hiding out. How about, āOh, lucky that I brought the flintstone!ā and then Merlin repeats the fire spell trick that he uses several times during these episodes. He could face away from Arthur, make a fire, and everyone would be safe! Also, later on, when the Dorocha attack him and Lancelot in the hut, Merlin reignites the fire which āexplodesā the Dorocha. But instead of staying in the hut with the fire, he runs out into the dark night! Conclusion: he has a death wish (which I get ā if I had to be in these shabby episodes, maybe Iād desperately try for TV show death as well ā might be difficult if youāre the titular characterā¦)! On a sad note, I wonder if Merlin indicates this wish (or a plea for help?) when he writes Arthurās speech about remembering those they have lost and celebrating their passing. Seeing that he is clearly still missing Freya when he asks Lancelot whether he still thinks about Gwen, Merlin might actually long to be reunited with his loved ones in death!
Merlin suffers from memory loss.
Merlin also seems to suffer from some kind of memory loss. He says to Gaius that he would gladly die (death wish!) knowing that one day Albion will live. Okay, fine, the prophecy. But what about, you know, your bond, your human connection with Arthur which, at this point, is hopefully founded on more than just āI have to look after him because a dragon told me itās my destinyā? I feel like this could have been so much more impactful if Merlin had been willing to die for Arthur as his friend and king and not just some pre-determined destiny. Also, Merlin later tells the dragon that a lot of what he sees is what the dragon has taught him. This annoyed me so much that I went away and looked at all the conversations Merlin has ever had with the dragon to see what he has actually learned from him. I have come to the conclusion that what Merlin really meant to say is: āA lot of what you see, old friend, is what I couldnāt understand because you were being cryptic or what didnāt teach me because I wouldnāt heed your advice.ā But since Merlin suffers from memory loss, thatās not the line we are getting.
Gaius has gone absolutely balloony!
Possibly in a case of empathy madness with the king, Gaius has gone completely off his rocker! Not only does he cry six (I counted) times for blankets or bedsheets with great urgency (They are dead, Gaius! Iām sure they can wait for their sheets!), but he also shows otherwise completely illogical reasoning or reactions. Merlin comes to him completely scared and helpless when he has found out he cannot use his magic against the Dorocha. Gaiusā reaction: āItās not your fault.ā What? How is that helpful? And thatās not at all what Merlin was indicating. He is bloody scared Gaius! Now youāre implying that possibly he might feel guilty about stopping this as well? More sheets!
In the final scene, after Agravaine has left, Gaius says that the only person who could have heard the name Emrys is Morgana because her power is growing so the Cailleach must have told her so Morgana must have told Agravaine so Agravaine must be a traitor. I mean, donāt ALL the druids know the name āEmrysā from all those prophesies? Possibly Agravaine has interrogated one recently? That would seem more logical. More sheets! Now!
Agravaine is too obvious to be true!
Now, despite faulty logic, Gaius arrives at the right conclusion about Agravaine but then destroys it all by saying that he suspects Agravaine is not as virtuous as he seems. Wrong. Agravaine is exactly as virtuous as he seems: not at all!
Recently, I watched this episode with a friend who had never seen Merlin before and within 10 seconds of Agravaine appearing from the dark corner, clothed in black, being slick and slimy, my friend said, āHe is a traitor, isnāt he? Is this going to be another one of those āObvious traitor in Camelot that forces everyone but Merlin to be absolutely oblivious and dumbā tropes?ā For heavenās sake, the guy is green-lit all the time! He is completely unbothered about the Dorocha who are, for some reason, sparing all the evil people, and he clearly freaks out Gwen even if she doesnāt realise that he contemplates strangling her. The only way I can bear this is through comedy, so if anyone is interested, there is a short fanfiction out there called āYour Cousin is Evilā by Charged Lightning that mocks all of this!
Morgana and Morgause are, after all, consistent!
I believe for 2.8. I commented that Morgause āconcocted the most stupid, risky plan in the history of stupid plansā. Throughout the next season and a half, the extreme lunacy and dependency on chance of any of Morgauseās plans have been surprisingly consistent. This, of course, includes her āplanā in these episodes. I donāt think Morgause had any idea what would really happen when the Dorocha were released or how to control them to achieve their goal. Or maybe she didnāt communicate them well, which leads me toā¦
Morgana is also consistent in failing to ask the right questions. When meeting Morgause in the woods in 2.12, I commented that āMorgana fails to ask Morgause to āeloborate on [the plan], pleaseāā. In these episodes, when Morgause says that her sacrifice and its consequences will bring their enemies to their knees, Morgana really should ask, āHow, exactly?ā In the beginning, we presume she knows Morgauseās plan and thus doesnāt ask here. But then we realise she has no idea what she is doing with the Dorocha on the loose, hasnāt even got any idea how to vanquish them once everyone is dead, since Agravaine needs to tell her about the sacrifice part. Furthermore, Morgana is utterly consistent in her infiltration of Camelot having no impact at all. If she can so easily sneak into the castle, why not stab Arthur and be done with him. But noooo! Youāve got to make sure your villains are consistent in not being competent or actually all that evil.
These episodes are specific but not precise.
Apart from the oddity of the culture-specific Samhain festivities and Gaiusā āThen God help us all!ā exclamation which bring up a whole lot of issues, has anyone noticed that apparently the Cailleach appeared at the stroke of midnight? Now, as far as I am aware, the bell in Camelot has only ever been used as a warning bell, not for time-keeping purposes. Yet, just before Merlin collapses, we clearly hear the tolling of midnight. This made me look into the history of bells ringing the hour. What I have found is that bells are very much connected to Christian churches and the liturgical hours kept by monks. About 400 AD, little bells were rung during services but larger church bells were pretty much established by 750 AD. Again, those wouldnāt be used as āclocksā but as calls to prayer or to other acts of worship. However, especially during night hours, time-keeping was very imprecise but then it didnāt matter too much for the monks and nuns. More precise mechanical clocks only came to Europe towards the end of the 13th century and obviously, it would take many years (and much overcoming of superstition that mechanical clocks werenāt witchcraft ā Hi there Uther and his magic-hating Camelot!) to using bell chimes as devices to keep the time. So, all that is to say: Did Camelot already keep time properly and if it was imprecise, why did the bells ring at exactly the correct moment when midnight made the veil be at its thinnest? How did Morgana and Morgause know this without any bells, however imprecise? If Camelot had bells, were they connected to churches, religion and prayer and if so, which one? And why did we never hear time-keeping bells in Camelot before? Is there a mob of frightened citizens on the streets during Arthurās Samhain festivities that think these chimes the usual alarm because of some danger?
During the girl from the village scene, she relates that the attackers āhad no facesā. Except, thatās pretty much the only thing the Dorocha DO have, a skull face, easy to remember, easy to describe. Possibly, at the time of shooting the scene, the creators of the show werenāt yet sure of the look of the Dorocha and so they couldnāt brief this actress properly?
Itās a nice idea that swinging torches at the Dorocha will chase them away. But has anyone noticed how awkward most people in Camelot handle the torches? Gaius and Gwen both look like the stick they were given is too heavy to navigate properly with one hand and they barely manage to hold on to it or they are afraid of burning themselves with the fire. In any case, it looks pretty laughable.
Finally, I hate how Merlin lying forward on the horse is so obviously uncomfortable for Colin and a really dumb way for the character to ride. During the scenes when he has to ride behind Lancelot, you see him constantly trying to stay down but inevitably arching up his back and head to hold himself up in the saddle. It looks so awkward and I wonder why they didnāt just take away saddle and stirrups to make it more believable or have Merlin share Lancelotās horse to be held up by him. Merlinās horse could still be taken along! I wonāt even mention the awkwardness of a too-tall Merlin being carried by Percival instead of all the knights. Because I might not be allowed back to comment if I insult Tom Hopperās muscles, I thinkā¦
Things I actually love in these episodes and that make me realise that I am way too forgiving when it concerns shabby television as long as some small parts are amazing and give me the feels
That scene between Arthur and Uther is glorious and heart-breaking. Bradley is wonderful in it and itās my favourite bit in the episodes.
Lancelot is brave, honourable, unassuming and an amazing friend throughout and I think he gets the very best death and āfuneralā that we will ever see on the show. He also gets the most emotional musical cue. (Itās called āMerlin buries Lancelotā which was clearly named by a person who had never seen the show!)
I laugh at the scene when Merlin asks Lancelot whether they will get to the ruined castle before nightfall ā in bright daylight. Itās clearly at best early afternoon and the thing looks about 10 horse-minutes away. No wonder they had time to practise an entrance to surprise the knights and Arthur with Merlinās survival!
I also have a little head-canon about the new ferryman to the Isle. What if this is some small-scale sorcerer who has noticed that traffic to and from the island has picked up again. He wasnāt quite sure whether this would work but he got himself a boat, put on some mysterious rags, refuses to speak and simply sticks out his hand. Clearly, his business model has paid off!
There is also a glorious alternative scene to the awkward exchange between Merlin and Arthur at the end of part one. In that scene, they sit around the campfire (key ingredient for amazing Merlin & Arthur scene!), the dialogue is pretty much identical, only Arthur gifts Merlin with his motherās sigil. Itās only a tiny scene and out of context and it still makes me choke up! Why didnāt they use that one?
Finally, I also really like the difference they are bringing out between Gaius and Gwen. Gaius challenges Agravaine but backs down immediately when that one refuses to re-open the gates. But Gwen sticks to her guns until she has got what she wants. I actually really like what that says about Gwenās character and weāve seen it before. Remember how she refused to be gaslighted about Morganaās magic in 3.8.? My only complaint is that she is then suddenly too gullible to not be suspicious when Agravaine invites her into his private chambers for a chat, being all insincere and slimy! Why canāt Gwen be smart and sassy all the time?
28th February 2021 @ 5:23 pm
āMerlin also seems to suffer from some kind of memory loss. He says to Gaius that he would gladly die (death wish!) knowing that one day Albion will live. Okay, fine, the prophecy. But what about, you know, your bond, your human connection with Arthur which, at this point, is hopefully founded on more than just āI have to look after him because a dragon told me itās my destinyā? I feel like this could have been so much more impactful if Merlin had been willing to die for Arthur as his friend and king and not just some pre-determined destiny.ā
Yes! Thatās why the lines about destiny in this episode felt so off to me, thank you for making that make sense to me! Arthur is sacrificing himself for the kingdom, which includes Merlin, whereas Merlin is sacrificing himself forā¦ well, Iād have thought either for Arthur as his friend or for the future kingdom he trusts Arthur will build, but apparently itās just out of some obligation to his destiny? Because he thinks he has to? And I always remembered Lancelotās death as being for Merlin, but the vow thing ruins that. It could have been for Arthur ā he literally says Arthur is a better man than him, so why canāt that be the reason instead of the vow? Itās like āI have to because itās my destinyā and āI have to because I promisedā are BOTH watered-down versions of the motivations it would make for them to have and that would have been more impactful.
Your points about Gaius are absolutely right, especially re āEmrysā and the druids.
The bell thing ā ok, firstly, thanks for doing the research on that because thatās so interesting! Secondly, Iām doing a course currently as part of my masters on representations of time in 18th/19th century literature, and basically accurate time-keeping in the sense that we know it (ie knowing what minute it is) didnāt come about until the 18th century and industrialisation/early capitalism and the rise of factories. Before that, average people followed a more task-oriented sense of time, and of course judged based on the sun and moon. I could talk about this for ages lmao, but the important thing is that in the middle ages NO ONE would know accurately what time it was, as youāve said, except I guess by way of sun dials which would be difficult and expensive to make accurate (and again it wouldnāt be accurate to the minute) and moreover no one was thinking of time in the clock-based way we do now ā āclock timeā wasnāt a thing, it was about the sun/amounts of daylight and how long it took to do tasks (eg medical texts said stuff like āstir the mixture for as long it takes to say the Ave Maria three timesā or whatever). SO, while I can forgive the confusing nature of the bells as being less diagetic and more just part of the music and spooky noises (especially since no one else seems to hear them, if I remember correctly), I canāt get past what you asked (how does Morgana know when itās midnight?) OR the inaccuracy of ANYONE in Camelot even THINKING about time in a way that required such precision!! Itās not just a physical infeasibility (I mean, hey, maybe Morgana knew by magic? Maybe thereās a magical chill in the air at just the right moment?) but a cultural thing that basically amounts to an anachronism in tone!
(Not that I actually begrudge the Merlin writers this, I obviously donāt actually expect anywhere near historical accuracy from them, Iām just a nerd)
Finally, I absolutely agree with you about the contrast between Gwen and Gaius!
28th February 2021 @ 5:59 pm
Oh wow – whatever you are doing as your masters, it sounds really interesting and thanks for telling me more about when ‘accurate’ time-keeping came about. So, even later than my research showed. I think while the Merlin writers don’t have to be historically accurate (since we are talking about a fantasy time period anyway), they should then at least try to avoid being specific or creating a sense of realism. Samhain, stroke of midnight, God help us – these terms are culturally specific and you invite viewers to regard the time/culture of the show as possessing parallels to the real world, and conseuqently to judge the show by its standards. We are nerds but they literally invited us to make real-life connections. So, I think it’s on them.
I guess it’s similar to what Ruth said about the stark quarry landscape of the opening scene making the show more realist and, thus, the death of only the unnamed knights less believable.
Conversely, the idea that Merlin and Lancelot plan to sacrifice themselves because of a vow or an abstract idea rather than a personal connection isn’t very realistic. When Merlin says, “You have to have a reason [to sacrifice yourself]. Something you care about. Something that’s more important than anything,” I really wish he would say “Someone”. I think it was in the Crystal Cave episode when I commented on how Merlin’s human and his superhuman (those that wishes him to renounce all human ties and embrace his Emrys) sides war within him. This, again, seems to show this sort of conflict but Merlin doesn’t seem quite a troubled here as in 3.5. And that’s even more odd. I don’t know, the whole thing is just odd.
1st March 2021 @ 9:06 am
Haha my masters is in English studies, 18th century and Romantic literature specifically.
So yeah, the earliest clocks were in the 13th or 14th century, for example they’re mentioned in Chaucer – but I can only assume they’d be pretty expensive to make, and not accurate to modern-day standards. I think it would be feasible that there would be at least one working mechanical clock in Camelot? So a bell COULD toll on midnight? I’m more concerned personally about the cultural thing. My research here mainly comes from an essay from 1967 by E.P. Thompson, called ‘Time, Work-Discipline, and Industrial Capitalism,’ by the way (so it’s old enough to maybe have been superseded in places, now I think about it) in case you’re curious! But Thompson says:
“It is by no means clear how far the availability of precise clock time extended at the time of the industrial revolution. From the fourteenth century onwards church clocks and public clocks were erected in the cities and large market towns. The majority of English parishes must have possessed church docks by the end of the sixteenth century. But the accuracy of these clocks is a matter of dispute; and the sundial remained in use (partly to set the dock) in the seventeenth, eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.”
“Grandfather clocks begin to spread more widely from the 1660s, but clocks with minute hands (as well as hour hands) only became common well after this time.”
“It is clear that there were plenty of watches and clocks around by 1800. But it is not so clear who owned them.” (ie could poor people afford them)
and then there’s Pitt’s attempt at a tax on watches and clocks in 1797-8 which went really badly and is pretty funny…
So I was a little hasty in saying they wouldn’t have had clocks at all until the 18th C but the distinction between task-oriented time and clock-time was still being worked out during the 18th C, as we see poems and such that differentiate between the boss’s time and the workers’ time, for example. ANYWAY, it still seems highly unlikely that anyone in Camelot would own an accurate clock (though sundials are perfectly plausible) or be thinking of time in the way we do, and moreover we never hear anyone talking about time in more specific terms than “sunset,” “midday” (which can be estimated by the position of the sun), “dawn” etc in the show so… much to overthink!
And about Merlin and sacrifice – yes, I wish he’d said “someone” too. It would even help a little with the vow thing and Lancelot – it could help to imply that Lancelot thought of Gwen (or even Arthur) at Merlin’s lines (realising he DOES have someone’s more important than his own life). Keeping “something” would make sense if Merlin actually mentioned Arthur’s future kingdom instead of just a nebulous “destiny” – as it is, it seems to imply that Merlin “care[s] about” destiny “more than anything” which just isn’t true. He cares about Arthur more than anything. He cares about his friends more than anything except Arthur. He literally saved Morgana last season DESPITE destiny because he cares about his friends so much…
1st March 2021 @ 10:57 am
Again, your masters sounds fascinating! And we get to benefit from that as well. Thank you for pointing me towards the essay and explaining the various ways ‘time’ was kept. For a time, I lived in Prague and they have the famous astronomical clock from 1410. So, being a cultural centre and royal seat, we can assume a fictional Camelot in a fictional 1410 would also have possessed some sort of mechanical clock – again, probably not that precise.
But I also remember that for many years, the people in Prague or other visitors believed that the clock was powered by witchcraft because no one understood the mechanics. So, a fictional Camelot in a fictional 1410 would probably NOT have had a magic-powered clock. Or would have burned it along with the clockmaker.
I think, however, that 1410 is still too late for the quasi-medieval time of the show. Even if they had sundials already, those would not have worked at night (right?) and there certainly wouldn’t have been a ‘stroke of midnight’ as the church bells at the time would have rung for prayer but not for to tell the time.
I’d actually forgotten that Merlin has defied destiny quite a few times to prioritise people and his belief in them. Hence this feels so out of character in these episodes.
2nd March 2021 @ 2:44 am
Your masters program sounds fascinating!
I was thinking when Merlin said “something to live for,” he was referring to his lifelong dream of a better world where people with magic and non-magic people could live together peacefully. Obviously, he would also want to die in place of his best friend because he loves him, but I really thought he was thinking of the big picture here….. I know that could also mean his “destiny” or Arthur’s “destiny,” but I really thought in this scene he was thinking of the dream he has had his whole life and hoping his sacrifice would help others with magic fulfill this dream?
2nd March 2021 @ 8:53 pm
Oh that’s totally fair, and a much nicer reading of it than what I had interpreted! I’m looking at the transcripts now and my assumption about it being a destiny thing was based on this:
GAIUS
Merlin, what are you doing?
MERLIN
It is my destiny to protect Arthur.
GAIUS
How? Your magic is powerless against the Dorocha.
MERLIN
Then I must sacrifice myself in his place.
GAIUS
No.
MERLIN
My life has always been marked out by destiny. If this is meant to be…I’m not afraid. I will gladly die, Gaius, knowing that one day…Albion will live.
So… yeah, you’re right, he definitely does care about the bigger picture, but I find it personally a bit depressing that he mentions destiny first. Especially given that later we have this:
MERLIN
Arthur intends to sacrifice himself to heal the veil. It is my destiny to protect him; you taught me that.
KILGHARRAH
Merlin, you must not do this.
and this:
CAILLEACH
So, Emrys, you choose to challenge me after all. Will you give yourself to the spirits to save your prince?
MERLIN
It is my destiny.
None of that negates your interpretation, and I don’t disagree with you. But he brings up destiny so much as his first justification, and as far as I can see doesn’t really mention Arthur as a person in any of these conversations (I could be wrong though, I’m just skim-reading the transcripts). It’s difficult for me not to read this as the influence of the destiny narrative on Merlin’s thinking in quite a sad way.
3rd March 2021 @ 3:59 am
Hmmm yes he does mention destiny a lot, but I guess I just always associate his “destiny” with this dream of everyone living in peace. I mean he is willing to be a martyr for this belief that he holds which is tragic, but also kind of beautiful? Yes, the people in his life are very important to him, but so is the acceptance of magical people. This conversation makes me think of those people that are willing to go into the military or to war to protect or fight for a certain ideal even though they may not make it to the end to actually see/experience the end result.
28th February 2021 @ 11:24 pm
— what bothers me even more is that this tiny girl (in size, not in age) that is clearly scared out of her wits and crying, is surrounded by all these really tall men, staring at her like some weird predators. —
yeah, fair point, I think they got unfortuantely a little excited by having booked and paid for all of these supporting artists, and therefore they were going to use them in all the scenes they could. I think they were probably trying to make a contrast to how Uther would have done it, as we’ve seen similar scenes where Uther sat on the thrown and villagers (Hunith on her knees most notably) coming before the king to say their piece, with the same number of people in the room, but all of them standing to attention lining the walls. I think they were going for a more casual group of people all standing on the same level as the girl, including Arthur, who tried so ahrd to meet her at her level… but yes, I agree, it ended up with a intimidating looming mob, which isn’t great.
— Shortly afterwards, a servant spills wine on the Princeās shirt, which he would have recognised since his manservant is carrying it, and the guy just keeps walking without so much as an apology?–
hahaha oh wow, I’d never even thought about the person who spilled the wine, on the acting king’s manservant’s laundry… fair point, that’s not very neat, either. At least you could have given him an AH SHIT! reaction shot and then have him run away in terror or something lol
–Finally, and this I find the most egregious, what parents leave their small children out in the dark with Dorocha on the loose and donāt bother picking up a torch to look for them? Too selfish? Did they even notice that their children were missing? Did they care?–
benefit of the doubt… maybe the parents are already dead? =/
–Merlin uses magic so often in sight of any number of possible observers (or discusses it with Gaius in a hall with open doors where anyone can overhear), I am wondering whether Merlin doesnāt have some sort of secret death wish.–
I think there is definitely a death wish going on with Merlin, which also unfortunately links to one of your favoruite pet peeves, and that’s of course merlin’s lack of self esteem. the only thing he’s good for is to help arthur become kind and fulfill his great destiny, and if he can do that with one grandious gesture, ie death, then he will, because that’s all he’s good for, right? sigh.
But I also think, as someone in the comments above (or below??) said, there’s the serious question we have to ask, as to how much of merlin’s carelessness is due to wanting to be discovered, and wanting to no longer live in fear. Maybe the reaction is going to be the worst possible thing he can imagine, but maybe that’s still better than living in constant worry over what’s could happen to him, if he was discovered? I think that’s a fairly accepted psychology in regards to having a massive secret and getting to the point where you know you can’t tell, but you also can’t live with it any longer, and therefore being careless and being accidentally discovered means it’s not your fault, you didn’t tell, but the secret is finally out…
–Why does Merlin think that jumping in front of the Dorocha will stop that same Dorocha from attacking Arthur after he has died? Can the Dorocha only āeatā one person at a time? Do they get a stomach ache ā or, seeing that they only have heads, a headache ā if they eat too much in one go? Was this in one of Gaiusā books?–
yeah, I’ve got nothing. It certainly feels that whenever they disperse one with a torch, that one’s gone for at least a little while, the problem is just that there are LOADS, so it doesn’t last because another one will be along in a second. So yeah, Merlin’s sacrifice doesn’t in any way help, and of course we then end the episode and then cut straight to the next morning, meaning we have absolutely no idea how any of them actually survived the night, considering they dropped all of their torches and clearly picking them back up wasn’t an option…. grrr.
–Merlin might actually long to be reunited with his loved ones in death!–
š š š
–Also, Merlin later tells the dragon that a lot of what he sees is what the dragon has taught him. This annoyed me so much that I went away and looked at all the conversations Merlin has ever had with the dragon to see what he has actually learned from him.–
Gotta love Spite!Reserach hahaha
–Not only does he cry six (I counted)–
I am glad you counted, because I didn’t, but I knew it was an unreasonable number, and six is definitely unreasonable!!
–In the final scene, after Agravaine has left, Gaius says that the only person who could have heard the name Emrys is Morgana because her power is growing so the Cailleach must have told her so Morgana must have told Agravaine so Agravaine must be a traitor. I mean, donāt ALL the druids know the name āEmrysā from all those prophesies? Possibly Agravaine has interrogated one recently? That would seem more logical. More sheets! Now!–
EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED IF ONLY WE REACH THE OPTIMAL NUMBER OF SHEETS!!!!
–In these episodes, when Morgause says that her sacrifice and its consequences will bring their enemies to their knees, Morgana really should ask, āHow, exactly?ā–
lol wouldn’t that just be something??
— It looks so awkward and I wonder why they didnāt just take away saddle and stirrups to make it more believable or have Merlin share Lancelotās horse to be held up by him. Merlinās horse could still be taken along!–
but sharing a horse with another man would make this all too gay! whereas being carried by Percival’s muscley arms is of course totally straight, in a bro kind of way!
or something…
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 3:58 am
So, the topic of Merlin tied to the horse. This bothered me quite a lot also. The important question is: Can Merlin sit up properly on a horse? The answer definitely appears to be “no” when Arthur sends him and Lancelot off. Merlin seems unable to move anything but his mouth and eyes, while Arthur does his speech. If he could move AT ALL, wouldn’t he be doing so, in order to persuade Arthur that he’s “fine” or at least fine enough to come with, as he’s pleading to be allowed to do? So, Merlin can’t move, like, at all. Established.
Now, I have watched many a TV show and a movie. (And I’ve done a little horseback riding, enough to do some small jumps and gallop through some fields and such. Flopping around on top of a trotting horse would be MISERABLE and super painful, unless there is some sort of trick for advanced riders/actors/etc of which I’m unaware.) Clearly, there are some options when it comes to traveling by horse while injured/ill/etc. I’d favor the “ride with me, Merlin” mode – now, Merlin is tall, so could be tough for Lancelot to have him ride in front of him like a little kid (sight lines and all), and I assume he couldn’t hold on while behind him, which, he could probably get gaffer taped to Lancelot (or lacking that, like, rope, etc), but that would be tricky for Lancelot to keep doing up and undoing every time they have to stop for a break or for overnight etc. It could also depend on what pace they’re trying to set, and what the horse they have is bred for. So like, if this is a horse Lancelot could use for jousting, it could presumably carry two humans without much difficulty, as that would involve loads of heavy armor, and Lancelot seems to have on only chain mail – not light, but not as heavy as it could be…but then, those sturdy horses probably wouldn’t be the ones you bring on a long journey where speed is a factor? So maybe the horse wouldn’t be thrilled to carry two…I don’t know.
But my point is, aside from the impossibility of suggesting gayness by two men riding one horse, there are other better ways of transporting someone who’s unable to ride on their own. A litter, or travois, for one. With the two poles, you put a blanket over them, and the horse drags them behind…the terrain looks faaaaairly smooth, so could work? Though obviously much slower.
And if you really need to tie Merlin, who cannot move at all, to a horse, I feel like you either secure his torso to the horse’s neck, or attach him so he’s lying with his belly on the saddle? Just letting him bob along is pretty sad though. It’s also confusing how Merlin can like allllmost ride properly in the travel montage-y bits, but then Lancelot carries him to the river all “I can’t move at all” except for sticking his hand in the river. I mean, needs must for advancing the plot, but…difficulties.
As for the bro-y-ness and non-gayness of being carried by Percival…it only remotely works because it isn’t Arthur, Gwaine, or Lancelot…as evidence, I shall link to a still from what is sometimes called the gayest episode of She-Ra (the new one), due in large part to this moment: https://she-raandtheprincessesofpower.fandom.com/wiki/Save_the_Cat/Gallery?file=Catradora2.png
š š š
1st March 2021 @ 11:10 am
Thank you for this! I very much appreciate some someone else takes exception to this as well – enough to lay it all out in such detail. Basically, we can agree that Merlin slumped forward in his saddle while unable to move is A) impossible, B) impractical, C) painful and D) abosolutely not sustainable for an entire day!
I think the horse (it’s white after all) could have probably handled two people. And, like I said to Michelle, it wouldn’t be the first time two men have shared a horse in Merlin.
Please, let’s all from now on call two people on one horse the āride with me, Merlinā mode! Imagine going for a leisure activity ride to some stables and request that your ride will be “ride with me, Merlin” style. LOL!
1st March 2021 @ 11:49 am
oh I completely completely agree that they should have put Merlin in a litter behind the horse!! also, they’re actually at a delapitated castle. I’m sure they could find a broken door somewhere that they could use in case the terraine isn’t fantastic. at least you could use that for starters, and then if Merlin gets any better during the journey, Lancelot can adjust to something else. silly people.
I don’t mind so much that merlin sits up at one point, and then is uncincious again, because there’s a weird flu-like element to the dorocha, and honestly, when you’re crazy ill with a fever you get bursts of energy, and the next moment you’re unconcious, so I buy that. especially because merlin would have been trying to push himself too hard, and therefore falling unconcious even more so, when he runs out of his temporary burst of energy.
and yes, destrier were insanely powerful horses by all accounts (sadly now extinct, due to lack of need) so absolutely could have carried two people, especially at a slower pace (which arthur suggests, telling lancelot it’s going to take forever to get back), but I do absolutely agree with the point you make about line of sight and merlin not being in a state to ride behind and hold on to lancelot
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 11:03 am
– benefit of the doubtā¦ maybe the parents are already dead? =/ –
I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt but then who are these people who sat so snuggly in their warm and well-lit hut and who hug and kiss the kids when they are brought in by Percival and Elyan? Who are they?
– EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED IF ONLY WE REACH THE OPTIMAL NUMBER OF SHEETS!!!! –
That made me laugh! š But maybe Gaius was secretly planning another way to heal the veil? Was he collecting all those sheets to ride to the Isle himself (because we know Gaius only needs about 1 night to get there) and then cover the rip with all those sheets? That would probably make about as much sense as the rest of Gaius’ ideas and logic in these episodes.
-but sharing a horse with another man would make this all too gay! whereas being carried by Percivalās muscley arms is of course totally straight, in a bro kind of way!-
But Merlin shared that horse with Elyan at the end of The Castle of Fyrien! Oh, the show cannot make up its mind.
1st March 2021 @ 12:09 pm
–I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt but then who are these people who sat so snuggly in their warm and well-lit hut and who hug and kiss the kids when they are brought in by Percival and Elyan? Who are they?–
erm… other parents who have lost their children, and in fact Percival just brought them new children, to replace their ones. Ye Olde Adoption Agency style.
Yep, I’m sticking with that… hahaha
–and then cover the rip with all those sheets?–
hahaha out of sight, out of mind! lol
–But Merlin shared that horse with Elyan at the end of The Castle of Fyrien! Oh, the show cannot make up its mind.–
but Elyan is Gwen’s brother, and therefore like a sibling to Merlin, because Gwen is like a sibling to Merlin… oh I don’t know, non of this makes any sense!! (I’m on my laptop, not my phone, so please picture MANY facepalming emojis here lol)
26th February 2021 @ 9:18 pm
Hi everyone! I am new to the Destiny and Chicken podcast. I just discovered Merlin a few months ago and fell in love! I was bummed to see that the show was so old and so I had no one else to nerd out with, until now!! I am really excited to start season 4 with everyone (4 & 5 are my favs).
I really like how the show is getting somewhat darker now and how our characters are maturing and growing up. (I particularly find Merlin extra handsome in these last two seasons.)
The scene where Merlin is dying and Arthur is telling him goodbye is absolutely heart wrenching and my favorite of this episode. It is such a beautiful scene and both Colin and Bradley nail it. I love how Merlin actually looks sick and dying (I hate how some shows tell you someone is sick/dying but they still look stunning). You can see in this scene just how much Arthur loves Merlin. It isnāt in his words, because he always wants to save whoever saved his life. It is in his facial expressions and his eyes. It is in the long shoulder squeeze and the stare after Merlin and Lancelot as they leave. If it had been one of the knights that were dying, I donāt believe we would have this same reaction from Arthur. He would want to save the knight, obviously, but all the subtle body language wouldnāt be there because they are not his best friend. Merlin is.
This is why I love this show! I know it has many many many flaws (and now I am aware of even more after listening to a few of your podcasts haha), but itās something about Colin and Bradleyās chemistry. They truly were meant to play these parts and itās the Arthur and Merlin scenes I live for!
After Merlin leaves with Lancelot, Arthur is very quiet and serious. Sure, he is probably worried about sacrificing himself, but the weight of Merlin dying and him not saving him also pulls him down. (I am always amazed at how well Bradley can pull off seriousness when he is also so good at being funny. He is truly talented.) Arthur doesnāt smile again until Merlin returns alive and well. I kind of love/hate their exchange when Merlin returns. Itās kind of formal and you can tell maybe they are slightly embarrassed?? āGood to see you??ā But they do make up for it when Arthur does the messing up hair and half hug thing. Itās just funny that all the other knights hug Merlin and his best friend gives him this awkward greeting.
The last thing I would like to add about this episode is the look Lancelot gives before sacrificing himself is just….. perfect. And Colinās reaction was perfect as well.
Sorry for blabbing on! Very excited for the next podcast!
26th February 2021 @ 10:37 pm
Hi Britney! I’m glad you found us. I was you about a year ago. Desperate to find someone to talk to about Merlin and then I literally just typed ‘Merlin podcast’ into Google and this happened!
There is certainly something in what you say about Merlin’s overall attractiveness in these last two seasons. Not that I have thought about this in any great length – but I could possibly point you to one specific episode in a matter of seconds where he looks more handsome than ever before. š
I don’t think it’s just you living for the Merlin and Arthur scenes, I think that’s pretty much the secret to the entire success of the show and the producers knew it. That’s why they invested so much time and camera focus on Bradley and Colin and their characters’ relationship and sadly neglected the characterisation, development or relationship dynamic of pretty much anyone else. So, their greatest asset became their greatest failing also – which may or may not be oddly echoed by the events of the show.
I like when Arthur and Merlin say goodbye in the courtyard but I have to smile when Arthur stares after Merlin because, the way Merlin lies forward on his horse and struggles to hold on to it, all Arthur sees of Merlin is his behind bobbing awkwardly on the saddle. So, that invites rather a lot of questions why exactly Arthur was checking out a dying Merlin’s behind! And it just makes me laugh because Bradley and Colin had to literally act these scenes and keep straight and worried faces.
Lancelot’s sacrifice is perfect and perfectly sad but I have to say that I hate Merlin shouting ‘Noooo’ at the camera. Three times! Maybe that’s just me but there have been previous instances of Colin having to roar at camera and it never worked for me. I just don’t see Merlin as a shouter. And certainly not repeatedly. It was similar when he shouted ‘Noooo’ at the sky when he thought Gaius was dead on the isle of the blest. It makes me cringe more than anything else.
So, instead, I am just going to watch the Merlin and Arthur half-hug on repeat and be content.
26th February 2021 @ 11:40 pm
“Lancelotās sacrifice is perfect and perfectly sad but I have to say that I hate Merlin shouting āNooooā at the camera.”
Merlin’s little broken “no” (as well as shouting at the camera in “The Crystal Cave”) is literally the only moment in this show where I didn’t get Colin’s acting choice at all! It’s weird and I cringe.
28th February 2021 @ 1:00 pm
For me there are a few moments – but then I am also reminded that the producers very freely admit that the cast had very little say over the portrayal or development of their characters, so some of Colin’s less successful moments might have been due to direction or simply the producers choosing a take that Colin himself might not have prefered.
You can also chart that the producers, at first probably distrustful of two young actors leading their show, were slowly convinced to trust Bradley and Colin with more dificult material as the show went on, which is why especially with Colin I have the feeling that his acting talent only coming into full bloom in later seasons. I won’t necessarily say that of Bradley since I think he was pretty strong and solid throughout. But of course there is development also.
28th February 2021 @ 4:35 pm
Yes, true. I liked Colin from the beginning, but it’s only after I listen to the D&C Podcast that I realized Bradley had a bit more difficult task from the start. He had to be a bit unlikable, but not too unlikable; a bit of a spoiled brat, but also with a heavy weight of his father’s expectations on his shoulders and a deep sense of honor. Whereas Merlin at the beginning is just a naive young boy who wants to do magic – and only later becomes more multi-dimensional.
Both Bradley and Colin did very well at their respective roles, but Arthur’s complexity just means Bradley’s talent gets to shine earlier. That’s at least what I think š
1st March 2021 @ 12:14 pm
I think the other thing with Bradley was that he worked with the producers on a different show before, and they kind of hand him in mind for the role from the very beginning, so it makes sense that he would have had more “freedom” or I guess more trust put in him to pull this off? Not saying they mistrusted Colin in any way, but yeah, untested young actors are always a scary choice to make, especially if you rely so heavily on them
27th February 2021 @ 12:19 am
I just literally laughed out loud at thinking of Arthur watching Merlinās butt as he trots away on his horse! Haha I suppose my problem is I didnāt think about that since Merlin leaves the scene and I was just focusing on Arthur.
I donāt know…. I really like the āNoāsā Call me crazy, I guess. During my most recent rewatch of Merlin, I love Colin so much that I think he basically could do no wrong in my eyes. š¤£
28th February 2021 @ 12:55 pm
Sorry – I hope I haven’t destroyed the scene for you forever. But I am sure, Merlin’s butt, like the rest of him, is worthy of contemplation. š At least Arthur seems to think so. (Sorry – I tried to make it better, but perhaps I have just made it worse now.)
I am also very fond of Colin – how could you not be – and like you, after the first time I watched it, I would have probably murdered someone with a blunt object (JOKE!) if they had dared to say anything against him.
Re-watching the show and listening/ commenting on these podcasts have changed my perspective a little, though. It’s not that I have less appreciation for him. Not at all. But I think I have learned to appreciate a lot more of what the other actors/behind the scenes artists have contributed to the show and, naturally, Colin’s performance as well.
26th February 2021 @ 11:46 pm
Welcome! The Merlin fandom seems to be immortal š And I also discovered the show this year!
And I’m glad to hear you like season 4&5, I feel like they deserve much more love š I’m especially excited to discuss season 4 which might be my favorite season š
27th February 2021 @ 12:22 am
Thanks! Iām so excited to find kindred souls!
28th February 2021 @ 11:37 pm
Welcome to the party Britney!
I 100% agree that Merlin does a fantastic job of letting their characters look like they’ve been through the things they’ve actually been through! We’re going to have similar scenes in 4×3 with both Bradley and Colin, and of course they are both stunning humans, so they’re always going to look pretty, but the show lets them be red nosed, and red eyed, and allows them to be pale and sickly looking, and have bags under their eyes like they actually haven’t slept in days. Some of that, I am sure, says slightly worrying things about their shooting schedules that it’s probably best to not think about in detail, however it so glorious to see on tv!!
— It is in the long shoulder squeeze and the stare after Merlin and Lancelot as they leave. —
that stare!!! poems should be written about that stare!!
–If it had been one of the knights that were dying, I donāt believe we would have this same reaction from Arthur. He would want to save the knight, obviously, but all the subtle body language wouldnāt be there because they are not his best friend. Merlin is.–
completely agree! I think there’s also a really nice line that the show/bradley always seems to remember, and that’s the fact that the knights signed up for this. they become knights and they pledge their lives to Camelot and the king. Merlin has done no such thing. And I feel we always remember that, even if we don’t ever really speak about it.
–This is why I love this show! I know it has many many many flaws (and now I am aware of even more after listening to a few of your podcasts haha), but itās something about Colin and Bradleyās chemistry. They truly were meant to play these parts and itās the Arthur and Merlin scenes I live for!–
there’s a reason why this show has stuck in our hearts for over ten years now, and it is absolutely because of Bradley James and Colin Morgan.
I often find myself thinking about the fact that Matt Smith was a contender to play Merlin, and I think Matt Smith is a brilliant actor, and I am sure he would have done a great job, but gosh, I can’t even imagine it…
— I kind of love/hate their exchange when Merlin returns. Itās kind of formal and you can tell maybe they are slightly embarrassed?? āGood to see you??ā But they do make up for it when Arthur does the messing up hair and half hug thing. Itās just funny that all the other knights hug Merlin and his best friend gives him this awkward greeting.–
overwhelmed with emotions and incapable of showing them. bloke problems, basically. that’s arthur in a nutshell right there hahah
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 4:04 am
I think those “bloke problems” was one reason why I didn’t love this show as much on first watch as I do now. I watched it kind of casually, without paying close attention to faces necessarily all the time. I see the nuance of it more, plus, I discovered fanfiction, which helps me with extrapolating inner monologues and thought processes and such lol!
1st March 2021 @ 11:15 am
Yeah, it was the same for me! I think it’s why I found it hard to like Arthur at first. I found it so frustrating how he restrains himself around Merlin. However, I don’t think he is like that with other people on the show. That’s why I always found that their relationship did not progress naturally or often regressed for odd reasons.
1st March 2021 @ 11:19 am
– that stare!!! poems should be written about that stare!! –
The stare that has Arthur watching Merlin’s backside on a horse, slowly receding. Sorry – once I put myself in Arthur’s position and realised what he would be seeing from his perspective, I can’t help but laugh at the stare. My best friend is dying – better check out his backside which is the only thing I can still see while he is strapped on a horse. What a sight…
1st March 2021 @ 12:16 pm
I stand by my statement. poems should be written about Arthur’s stare, and clearly Arthur thinks poems should be written about Merlin’s backside hahaha
2nd March 2021 @ 2:57 am
šš I canāt watch this scene now without a little, tiny grin spreading across my face…..
2nd March 2021 @ 3:02 am
Also, Matt Smith…. as Merlin? NoNoNoNoNoNo…….
26th February 2021 @ 3:58 pm
I totally know what you mean when Ruth says that these episodes are really stuffed and I agree, with the first episode. I feel like the second episode is actually quite dragging, as in there are so many scenes (like you guys mentioned) which are slightly irrelevant and could easily be cut. It’s like the writers are looking for things to put in the plot so the journey would take longer eg. the wulderin (sorry, can’t spell) scene, that mini speech Elyan, that night with Merlin and Lancelot in that house that we’re gonna use again next episode (spoilers…), stuff like that. If the journey was 2 days ride instead of what feels like a week, it would save time for some much needed background and context, like Agravaine and stuff, and change nothing about the actual plot. I get we needed Lancelot to have that character arch but I still feel like there could’ve been time to do it.
I’m just gonna say it now, I don’t like Agravaine full stop. Bare in mind I haven’t seen this series in ages so I may have forgotten stuff, but it feels like he has no motivation for why he is doing what he is doing, why is he on Morgana’s side, how and when did he and Morgana meet and team up, what has he got against Camelot, what is he gaining by being with Morgana? It feels like he has no character apart from being there when the plot needs him to be there and being the traitor in the story. This isn’t particularly problematic in this episode, more the series as a whole, but still. Again, haven’t seen these in a while so I would love to be proven wrong, but this is what I remember (if there is more that I can’t remember, then he’s very forgettable, which isn’t much better).
Not to bash on this episode too much though, I actually really enjoyed it. I won’t repeat the podcast too much but moments that particularly enjoyed were 4 different Merlin and Arthur scenes (only the 2nd half of the opening one with the speech writing, the candle dropping scene, Merlin leaving on the horse, the log scene near the end of ep 2) and the whole scene in the town in ep 1, the silence and lack of music is particularly obvious and the whole thing is really eerie. I love the spooky vibe the story has got, the lack of saturation adds to it so much.
Also there’s not enough praise going to the huge growth in production value!!! The change of camera and improvement in focus quality is huge and they really show it off with those cool change in focus along the line of knights in the funeral scene. I also love the extra kitchen set, duno why, I love a lot of the scenes that are going to happen in the kitchen. I should’ve put this first but there’s a new castle in this episode!! All the Ile of the Blessed scenes were filmed in Raglan Castle, but that big hall with the vagina hole between worlds was set and green screen. Not sure where the other castle scenes were filmed (the one where Merlin diesdoesn’tdie), possibly the same one. Probably the same one.
This comment turned out way longer that I intended, sorry! This is my first time commenting on the website and I’m getting a bit over exited… just pick out the important parts. Also, I’m so sorry I have to say, it’s Cadi like the golf caddy. You know in Mean Girls everyone pronounces Cady’s name wrong? It’s that same wrong pronunciation. Imagine your screaming in pain. It’s that type of ‘a’! Don’t bother with the Delyth :’))
26th February 2021 @ 4:43 pm
hah! no worries about getting over excited and welcome to the website! š
I feel like I pronounced your name correctly that one time, and now I’m just getting more and more confused every time I say it…
mostly because the ‘a’ when screaming in pain is not the same ‘a’ as the one in golf caddy to me… so that’s doubly confusing š
also… is now the correct time to confess that I’ve never seen Mean Girls? lol
M Xx
1st March 2021 @ 1:19 pm
I’ve sent an email…well, 3 versions of the same email, the 3rd one is the right one…
26th February 2021 @ 9:29 pm
I completely agree about Agravaine! Why the hell are you here?? What is in it for you? Who are you?! Are you even from Camelot? How do you know Morgana? Are you lusting after her and thatās why you are working with her? Explain yourself, sir!
26th February 2021 @ 10:23 pm
Welcome to the website, Cadi. š Honestly, compared to some, your comment really isn’t that long. It’s also much more appreciative of these episodes. I feel bad about criticising them so much now. Thanks for being positive.
Although not about Agravaine. I agree with both you and Britney: Why? How? Who? And can you please get out of this story, please, thank you very much!
1st March 2021 @ 1:21 pm
I love the welcomeness of this community!! I’ve listened to the podcast for about a year now, and have interacted from time to time. But I love how welcoming everyone on this website it! Thanks so much xx
1st March 2021 @ 1:30 pm
Also, don’t feel bad! Isn’t it the whole point of this website, dare I say community, is to love the things we love while also picking them apart to see where it stand up and where it doesn’t? It’s in the name isn’t it! š
1st March 2021 @ 9:24 pm
I think the website generally feels like a university class of friends where everyone is a massive fan of the subject and can hardly contain their enthusiasm. And yes, that’s enthusiasm to pick things apart but also to appreciate what we love.
This particular post, because it’s the first of the fourth season and after a long hiatus, feels like we’re kids that all know each other, coming back to a beloved summer camp after a hard, long academic year. Everybody is hugging everybody and in a moment, someone is going to start the cup song! š
2nd March 2021 @ 5:12 pm
–I totally know what you mean when Ruth says that these episodes are really stuffed and I agree, with the first episode. I feel like the second episode is actually quite dragging, as in there are so many scenes (like you guys mentioned) which are slightly irrelevant and could easily be cut.–
I think Mary may have hit the nail on the head by saying it feels like the Merlin writers wrote two entirely unrelated episodes. and then very unseuccessfully smooshed them together, ending up with two not very well balance or blending episodes š
–Iām just gonna say it now, I donāt like Agravaine full stop.–
yeah, I think that is something that every Merlin watcher can agree on. Poor Nathaniel. It’s really not his fault, but man did he say yes to the wrong job! haha
We’ve also had a number of write ins very early towards the end of season 1, saying that people couldn’t wait until we got to season 4 in case we could unravell the mystery that is agravaine and honestly, there is no such thing, that’s the problem. I wish he was a mystery, but unless this rewatch is going to be the biggest SHOCKER of the century… nope. he just makes no sense.
— You know in Mean Girls everyone pronounces Cadyās name wrong? Itās that same wrong pronunciation.–
okay, I just linked this back to your email, and the fact that it’s the teacher’s pronounciation! feel like me might finally be getting somewhere here hahahaha
M Xx
25th February 2021 @ 8:02 pm
You’re back and I’m happy! š
I have totally different feelings towards this episode though – I mean, I can see all the shortcomings (or, I couldn’t see half of them until I listened to the podcast haha), but emotionally, this episode still works pretty well for me! I love all the Arthur/Merlin scenes (especially the speech scene, and Arthur’s little private laugh at Merlin’s outraged expression <3 ), and I ADORE the Lancelot/Merlin scenes (especially the shirt scene! Love it with all my heart!). I also love how happy Merlin starts out this season! You can see that he feels so good in Camelot among the knights, and is probably happiest we've ever seen him.
I do agree about Gwaine, though. š And about Agravaine – I think his character would have totally benefited from arriving at Camelot this episode (or maybe, in the third episode? Who knows), instead of already being there. Then we could get some backstory on why he only appears now. Maybe something more about Igraine. He'd also totally benefit on not being immediately exposed as a traitor. Let the viewers puzzle him out along with Arthur for once!
Since I've been summoned to comment on the soundtrack, I will š Yes, the Lancelot theme is pretty prominent throughout this two-parter, right from the moment the knights leave Camelot until the very end, where the theme has its culmination during the funeral pyre scene. I do believe that they added the Spanish guitar this season, though. I'm not sure it works for me, it kinda seems to belong to a different musical world.
But I have two other observations on the soundtrack. Firstly, in the opening scene with Morgana and her cart, the soundtrack is really unusual! I haven't heard it before in this series, and the flute there sounds pretty… western-y. Which kinda corresponds with the rest of the scene, and the scenery! Weirdly enough, this episode has some weird western vibes at times, namely in the scene where they arrive at the dead village and Arthur goes all "it's too quiet here" – I mean, it is also pretty horror-y as well. Just a curious observation.
Secondly, the soundtrack when Merlin is being healed by the river spirits – it's the "Golden Era" theme which I've written so madly about last season! Just to reiterate, it's a theme which starts like Freya's (and Gilli's) theme (harp + subtle vocal), but is more expanded when it adds a triumphant choir. We last heard it in the scene at the original Round Table (3.13) during the allegiance speeches and the knighting ceremony. In Season 4, it only comes once. It returns for Season 5, and I have a whole theory about its significance, but I don't want to be spoiler-y. I'll wait with the explanation till Season 5 (unless someone would like to hear it now!). For now, let's say that I think it appears here because of Merlin's magic (obviously), but it also subtly ties Merlin's special role to the Golden Era of Albion that Arthur was (and still is) working towards. Here, Arthur is about to sacrifice himself for his people, so there is a chance he won't fulfill his role. But thanks to the water spirits, Merlin is healed, Lancelot and Merlin can return to the party, and Arthur is saved. The hope is rekindled.
One quick note on the religion: I actually believe that this episodes have the most coherent data on the religion that we're ever going to get in this show. Although both Camelot and the Old Religion celebrate Samhain, the priestesses of the Old Religion are actually religious in the āproperā sense ā they had ceremonies, sacrifices etc. Camelot, on the contrary, celebrates it like modern-day non-religious people would celebrate Christmas: itās a lay celebration where itās not about the gods or the religion, but about getting together and remembering people who have passed. In a similar way, when Gaius says āgod help us allā later itās confusing, but I think he treats it just like a pattern of speech, just as many modern people would do. So in that respect, Camelot is pretty modern in its lay-ness š
I tried to keep this comment short… I really tried…
25th February 2021 @ 9:23 pm
I tried to comment a moment ago, but it didnāt work, just in case two pop up!
– Here, Arthur is about to sacrifice himself for his people, so there is a chance he won’t fulfill his role. But thanks to the water spirits, Merlin is healed, Lancelot and Merlin can return to the party, and Arthur is saved. The hope is rekindled. –
Oh my goodness, you interpret and write about music SO beautifully! This is also one of my favourite themes, and your comments on it add so much depth – greatly looking forward to your season 5 theory. I have also come to join the music party as I absolutely love some of the individual themes in these episodes, and though I will not put it as coherently as you do,
Iāll try my best haha!
I love the use of the strings in the Lancelot piece – they are quite prominent in the love themes in this show, so I think to feature them in a piece in memory of a romantic figure is interesting. May be very very wrong here so please do correct me if I am, but musically, I believe the piece has a modal tonality – specifically Aeolian mode (I think!) the natural minor, which creates a much more melancholy, subtle sadness than other minor scales, which to me makes so much sense when associated with grief and mourning. And with Lancelot as a character, the natural minor is so much more soft-sounding. Lancelot has a ton of themes named after him which is interesting, as we hear his music quite a lot even when heās only about 5 episodes – I think reminiscent of the fact that his presence is always there: in Arthur and Gwenās relationship, in the fact that heās one of few who know of Merlinās magic, and now his sacrifice for Camelot that they will all probably feel guilty for, even if they couldnāt have prevented it.
– Arthurās little private laugh at Merlinās outraged expression <3 – On a lighter note, this makes me too extremely happy!
25th February 2021 @ 10:17 pm
Thank you so much for your kind words <3
As to Aeolian mode – OMG, I would have never noticed that :O but you're so right! And I love your interpretation – it's really true that Lancelot's presence is very prominent in this show, even when he doesn't appear in an episode… it's really fascinating š
26th February 2021 @ 3:13 pm
I love all the comments on the music!! I’m quite musical myself but I never would’ve thought about these in the context of the story!! Please could you say where in the episode/which track these themes occur so then I can go back and go “oh ye!” š
26th February 2021 @ 4:14 pm
Here you go š I don’t have the exact minute these tracks appear, but I’ll try to describe the scene as best as I can.
Lancelot’s theme 1 (it’s on the Season 4 soundtrack under the name “The Burial”): appears when Arthur and the knights leave Camelot, straight after Arthur saying goodbye to Uther and Gwen; the Spanish guitar joins in as Merlin says his goodbyes to Gaius. The theme reappears in its full form when Lancelot’s cloak is burned on the pyre (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhu1Qd1peLY)
Lancelot’s theme 2: when Lancelot enters the veil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WDezmJsvPE), it’s a variation on the theme of Lancelot defending the griffin in Season 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odNep1oqX8I)
The “Golden Era” soundtrack, partly released under the name “Knights of the Round Table” from Season 4 soundtrack. Appears when Merlin is healed by the spirits of the river (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnubUZlQdLU). It’s a variation on Freya’s theme from Season 3 soundtrack; it also appears in Season 3 finale (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRTdGwAT6xE&t=9s). Then it reappears in Season 5, if you want spoilers, let me know, I’ll pass you the links š
The weird western-y theme, unreleased: the very first scene of ep. 1, the one with Morgana and the cart, first minute of the show. Sadly, I can’t find a clip on youtube.
26th February 2021 @ 10:18 pm
Hello, hello! Thanks for your comment and, like everyone else here, I am excited to hear your musical headcanon about the ‘Golden Era’ theme. I personally have never cared for the ooh-aahs in the theme as they make everything sound a little bit over the top. But that’s personal preference. I do like that it’s the theme repeated when the Vilia mention that “The young warlock has great power and a future that has been written since the dawn of time.” Foreshadowing?
Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you on Agravaine. I mean, by all means, bring him in later in the season (or, even not at all?) but I think asking viewers to puzzle him out for a couple of epsiodes when he is so clearly evil-coded would be a disrespect to everyone’s intelligence. I am glad they didn’t beat about the bush with that one. Personally, the only one who is really hard to ‘fathom out’ is a certain young someone in season 5!
26th February 2021 @ 11:43 pm
Maybe you’re right about Agravaine, I don’t know š Maybe if they didn’t dress him up in black… It’s interesting that he’s still saying rather rational things about closing the gates (until Gwen makes a better argument for her case), so I still think it would have been interesting to just present him as this neutral figure who has different views on things but isn’t necessarily evil. But that would indeed require a lot of rewriting.
27th February 2021 @ 12:34 am
Oh, and as to the Golden Era headcannon, here it goes (beware, it’s written from the perspective of season 5)
SPOILERS BELOW, AND I MEAN IT, HEAVY SPOILERS!
So do you remember the “There is no place for magic in Camelot” scene from the Disir? The moment where Merlin makes the fateful decision and it almost destroys him?
Letās get our hearts broken by this scene again, why donāt we?
So letās dissect the soundtrack that plays during that scene.
It starts off with a very delicate harp. Harp in Merlin is often a sign of two things ā love and magic. Itās played in the Arwen love theme, but it also appears every time Merlin has met a good magic user. Taliesin, or the Fisher King? Their scenes always have harp somewhere in the background. But, more importantly, Freyaās theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRlavnvHJPE) starts with a harp playing the exact same melody as it does in the scene Iām analyzing. And Freyaās theme is also played when Merlin has his conversations with Gilli. So, we have the first component of our piece of music: magic users. Those that Merlin is about to doom to forever hide who they are.
But letās leave Freyaās theme, because, though it starts similar, it ventures in a different direction. Meanwhile, our theme gains the strings, and, more importantly, the female choir. A very ethereal one. Itās a throwback to the very first scene of the first episode of Merlin, when Merlin walks to Camelot and the Dragonās voice says āthe boy, that will in time father the legendā (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdcPiJ1QfC8). Only there, the choir started off loud and triumphant, and here, itās much subtler. It only slowly gains its momentum, to be abruptly cut off when Merlin makes the Fateful Decision. So, we have a second element of our music: the destiny. The destiny that has plagued Merlin, overburdened him, and pressured him into making this impossible decision in the first place.
Okay, but now that we have the elements of this soundtrack, where else do we hear it in the series? Can those scenes shed some light on this particular scene?
Indeed they can. As far as my ears could hear (and I really tried, I hope I didnāt miss any scene), we hear this exact theme in this exact arrangement only 4 times:
1) In The Coming of Arthur Part Two (3.13), in the famous scene by the original Round Table, when everyone is saying their allegiance speeches and the scene then smoothly transitions to the knighting ceremony. Itās the only time when the soundtrack isnāt abruptly cut, but enfolds, adding triumphant trumpets which emphasize the valor of the knights ā changing into The Knights of the Round Table Theme.
2) In The Darkest Hour Part Two (4.2), when Merlin is with Lancelot and is being healed by the spirits of the water. The soundtrack is cut as the scene ends and the story jumps back to Arthur and the knights.
3) In the scene which Iām analyzing right now ā The Disir (5.5).
4) In The Kindness of Strangers (5.10) ā when Finna makes her sacrifice, killing herself before Morgana, letting Merlin escape. The soundtrack is cut abruptly as Finna dies.
Do those scenes have anything in common? On a first glance, not much. But let us see:
The Round Table scene is all about the Golden Age that Arthur is about to bring. There is hope for the future in that scene, but at the same time, the Golden Age is starting here and now, because Arthur makes his own decisions which are going to change everything. Simply put, Arthur is fulfilling the destiny that Merlin has been told so much about. Because of the man he is. And I think itās no accident that the soundtrack doesnāt get cut there. This is the first big triumph of the vision of the future Merlin and Arthur share. Itās about justice, but not (yet) about magic ā itās no accident that right after the knighting ceremony, Lancelot says to Merlin āyouāre the one Arthur should knightā, and they share the secret of Merlinās magic. And Merlin responds that one day, one day magic will be allowed. One dayā¦
The bonding between Lancelot and Merlin in The Darkest Hour is similar to The Coming of Arthur. They share Merlinās secret. The soundtrack comes back, but this time, itās all about magic. Merlin is the son of the elements and heās being healed by them. There is no Golden Age without his magic, as it seems. But there are still dangers ahead, and the scene is cut.
And then, Merlin makes the very fateful and very wrong decision. The whole hope that sounded in the music, is cut. The hope for the magic users who have been recalled by the harp in the beginning. The hope for a complete Golden Age which has been recalled by the choir. The hope for Merlin as a person to live free. It all ends here.
So why does the music return when Finna makes her sacrifice? In the end of The Kindness of Strangers, when Gaius and Merlin read the Catha message about Camlann, Merlin says āso many have died so I can hear those wordsā. Yet again, the music reminds us of all the good magic users that have been waiting for their freedom, trusting in the destiny (if it was true or not, is another story). Finnaās sacrifice was made willingly, but Merlin has already sacrificed many more: Gilli, the druidsā¦ a whole population. And he knows it. Just look at his face when he lies on the roof, knowing that Finna is dying so he could live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_7fVlgJNU. Heās overwhelmed by the destiny, and the music, again, ends with the death of the last positive magic user that is introduced on the show. Itās over. There will be no Golden Age. Because no matter what Arthur has done as a just king, still all the promises havenāt been fulfilled. Because Merlin didnāt let it happen. Not knowingly, not on purpose ā but still, he was the catalyst.
The theme doesnāt come back after that. Even when Merlin is in the Crystal Cave in The Diamond of the Day Part One, itās Freyaās theme which is played as Merlin talks to Balinor. It reminds him of his magical roots and of the kinship he has with magic itself ā and all the magic users heās betrayed before ā but there is no place for the hopeful choir. Not any more.
Sorry for the angst, but that’s how this show rolls…
27th February 2021 @ 6:18 pm
Wow what a beautiful analysis. It really broke my heart all over again.
It makes so much sense to connect those scenes and makes it all hurt so much more.
27th February 2021 @ 8:42 pm
oh my god. I donāt know what to say or where to start, other than that I feel like Iām going to start crying. That was intensely beautiful and painful and Iām not sure if I will recover…wow.
Finnaās death was and remains one of my favourite scoring choices to date: to use that beautiful, soft, gentle theme for such a dramatic scene moved me, although Iām not sure if I really understood why until now. And I was always confused as to why it made me feel so sad, especially towards a character who weād just met – well, now I know! Finna, and her death, is symbolic of the failed destiny itself – of all the magic users who have been forsaken by Merlin and his choices. And itās so ironic, when he tells her it wonāt always be like this, and so painful because it will never happen and I think he knows this.
– Itās a throwback to the very first scene of the first episode of Merlin, when Merlin walks to Camelot and the Dragonās voice says āthe boy, that will in time father the legendā – This is so poignant and cruel as they are literally telling us that itās all over here, and there is nothing to be done; this great destiny never actually happened, and this show is a tragedy.
– It only slowly gains its momentum, to be abruptly cut off when Merlin makes the Fateful Decision. So, we have a second element of our music: the destiny. The destiny that has plagued Merlin, overburdened him, and pressured him into making this impossible decision in the first place. –
Oh my goodness this is so brilliant, but terrible and again tragic. Itās pure tragedy, because by striving for the destiny and becoming completely obsessed with it, he causes itās cessation.
And your mention of the choir – vocals are used loads throughout the score and I always think thereās something about them that sounds, as you say, very hopeful and quite haunting and unearthly. They are such a interesting choice of instrument, and I wonder whether they imply to us that the choir itself is the magic users, or more generally the people of Albion waiting for the Golden Age to dawn?
Wow, I am in awe at how you picked up on all of that and again, wrote about it so beautifully. I am really really looking forward to those moments in Season 5 now when we can analyse them in even more detail and in connection to everything else going on in the scene.
27th February 2021 @ 9:06 pm
I’m really glad you liked my analysis š and that there was a “beautiful” element to it, not only the “sad” one š
“And your mention of the choir ā vocals are used loads throughout the score and I always think thereās something about them that sounds, as you say, very hopeful and quite haunting and unearthly. They are such a interesting choice of instrument, and I wonder whether they imply to us that the choir itself is the magic users, or more generally the people of Albion waiting for the Golden Age to dawn?”
That’s a fascinating take and I never thought of that! But yes, it really makes sense – the choir very often represents some kind of community in music, and it makes so much sense that the melody which in Freya’s theme is sung by a single voice (because it’s just about Freya, or just about Gilli, or just about Balinor, or just about Merlin), in the “Golden Era” theme is picked up by a group of people – whether it tells a tale about Arthur’s new group of loyal people, or about the magic users that are waiting for freedom… music symbolism is so great and I loove decoding it š
And yes, Finna’s death gets me every single time! This really brutal death (possibly one of the most brutal deaths on the show!), juxtaposed with the soft soundtrack, and all the background noise is cut off… it’s a recipe for tears :’)
28th February 2021 @ 12:50 pm
Okay, that is some hard-core musical interpretation. Really imaginative and interesting and wouldn’t it have been awesome if I could rely on the Merlin producers and writers to actually have put that much intention and care into the scoring of the show?
I’m not saying they haven’t. Clearly, the composers were brilliant and for me there many moments where I can tell very clearly that score has been used to advance story-telling. I don’t know if we can presume that music has been employed with such an over-arching narrative and message in mind. I remember reading that the producers had no more music produced in the final season of the show because they had so much composed already. So, they simply used material from previous seasons. That’s efficient but, for me, also betrays a disregard for the power of music to help with charactersation and storytelling. In fact, I remember especially in season 5, particularly in the opening two-parter, that I felt the music was just recycled and the story scored quite randomly. There is a particular theme (The Bond of Sacrifice, I think it is called) that is used over and over again and I actually got sick of it the first time I watched it.
Might be similar to what Ruth and Michelle said about overscoring these two epsiodes. I think the way music was practically used in the show was to communicate the emotional content of a scene, to avoid silences and to cover up any hiccoughs in acting or writing that would otherwise have been glaringly obvious. The writing I understand. But especially the acting is mostly pretty stellar in Merlin and I find it quite sad to know that the showrunners might not have trusted their actors enough to risk not drowning out their performances with the score.
28th February 2021 @ 5:34 pm
But that’s the whole thing with interpretation – we are never going to know exactly what the writers’ / composers’ / producers’ intention was, but that doesn’t mean we can’t look at the product and see some possible symbolism there. It’s been actually quite common for creators to just go like “I wrote it because I liked how it sounded” whereas the public saw an intricate pattern of symbols and inner meanings. That doesn’t mean those inner meanings aren’t there. They might have got there subconsciously, or they might have just be there regardless of anyone’s intention. That’s the whole fun of interpretation! š (and yes, I might have studied it for 5 years, so I might be super eager to defend it now š )
People sometimes tend to say “oh no, this couldn’t have been intentional, the creators weren’t that smart” – I don’t like it, because the creators might not have foreseen every possible connotation of their work, but they still made it and the sheer fact that it’s possible to be interpreted in so many ways is a proof of its worth š
28th February 2021 @ 6:10 pm
Oh, I’m not saying don’t use interpretation. Absolutely not. It’s the beauty of art, after all, isn’t it? I just wish I had got the sense from the showmakers that they had spent more care on how they used the score than I think they did. I think it often feels quite random, even sloppy. But that doesn’t mean your ideas aren’t beautiful and meaningful.
2nd March 2021 @ 8:29 pm
Yeah, true š It’s always possible that the showmakers (or whoever was actually responsible for ascribing the tracks to the scenes? I have no idea how this process worked in BBC back then) just went with their emotional, gut feeling (which resulted in some pairings not making much sense), whereas the composers themselves had more symbolism to back it up š And sometimes we don’t realize that when a piece of music works emotionally for the scene, it’s precisely because there are some hidden meanings there, only we don’t realize it š
28th February 2021 @ 7:05 pm
Thatās just fantastic, thank you for this breakdown! It really does cement the tragedy of the show for me, and for some reason that makes it easier to accept. So much of the way this show ended felt slapdash to me, which made the contents of it that much harder to bear. But if there was some method to the madness, if someone was tying to thread the pieces together and form a musical narrative that upheld the tragic beauty…than Iām much more ok with the tragic beauty, haha.
1st March 2021 @ 1:25 pm
Oh. My. Word.
You either have too much spare time to do a huge amount of research, or you really know your stuff and you did all of that from the top of your head. Possibly both? Either way, this is incredable!! I haven’t checked all of them (I will eventually!), but I’m sure your right about this.
2nd March 2021 @ 8:26 pm
Haha, it’s a combination of both š the Fateful Year 2020 has endowed me with huuge amounts of spare time, but I also had some experience with music(al) interpretation in the course of my studies a few years back š
I’m really glad you liked it š I’m sure there is no right or wrong in this type of interpretation – it’s just something that made sense to me and seemed to add an extra layer to the show, so I decided to go for it š
28th February 2021 @ 3:18 pm
Hi! New to commenting here, but very excited to join the discussion. I am so glad we are talking about the music. I honestly really love many of the themes from the show, and I think that it is just another reason why I couldn’t get over the show after watching it for the first time last spring toward the beginning of quarantine/lockdown.
Mary, I completely share your frustration for how the producers disregarded the way the music could have been used for storytelling, and how it almost felt random. I really tie music with emotional moments, so to stick themes in at random only confuses everything more.
I greatly appreciate your analysis of the themes and their significance at different moments, Danuta; it helps me come to terms with how the music could actually signify information to the audience (even though I have an inkling that what Mary said is what really happened behind-the-scenes). When I say come to terms, I do mean storytelling-wise, but also with regard to how the music is often just cut off. The abrupt halt of themes can make listening to the music later frustrating because it makes me wish it kept going and ended in a more cohesive way. Even when watching the show, sometimes I feel musically left at a cliff because the scenes have switched so abruptly. I noticed it particularly this time re-watching 4.1/4.2 when we switched from Merlin healing at the river back to Arthur and crew. In general, the cuts really bother me (especially for listening purposes later), but I am so glad to see that they could have a purpose, per you analysis, Danuta. Thank you.
28th February 2021 @ 4:27 pm
Hi Kate! It’s so exciting to see so many new people join in the discussion each new season. Glad you like discussing the music as well – we tend to do that a lot, actually. It is a really important aspect of Merlin but of course of film/TV in general, one that can either ‘cover a multitude of sins’ or make something bad even worse. I agree with you that the editing in these episodes was far too jumpy – and the musical scoring and its effect suffered due to this also. I noticed it especially when Arthur says goodbye to his father. Like Ruth and Michelle said, there is a scene between Gaius and Merlin in 1.13. that is really similar to this one. But it lasts so much longer than we have given Bradley/Antony and it is a real shame because both actors really pull out all the stops. But then, we agreed that these episodes were overstuffed.
Actually, I just realised that the parallel Gaius/Merlin scene was in the one other episode where we travelled to the Isle of the Blessed and it took about 1 minute of filming time. Wish in this double-parter, they had cut down on some of the (now much longer!) journey time to give more space for restful edits of character development.
28th February 2021 @ 5:34 pm
“One quick note on the religion: I actually believe that this episodes have the most coherent data on the religion that we’re ever going to get in this show. Although both Camelot and the Old Religion celebrate Samhain, the priestesses of the Old Religion are actually religious in the āproperā sense ā they had ceremonies, sacrifices etc. Camelot, on the contrary, celebrates it like modern-day non-religious people would celebrate Christmas: itās a lay celebration where itās not about the gods or the religion, but about getting together and remembering people who have passed. In a similar way, when Gaius says āgod help us allā later itās confusing, but I think he treats it just like a pattern of speech, just as many modern people would do. So in that respect, Camelot is pretty modern in its lay-ness ”
I agree with all of this, but the show still leaves me with one question: where does that pattern of speech come from? I mean, if Samhain is part of the Old Religion, then it makes sense for us not to have heard about it during Uther’s reign: maybe Arthur didn’t know much about it, since he seems to have been brought up really ignorant about magic/the OR, so as far as he’s concerned he’s just celebrating a holiday that his people take seriously – I mean, we know Merlin was the one who wrote the script, so Arthur wouldn’t need to know anything about it except that his people celebrate it. But “god help us” etc? “God” in the singular – where did that come from? The OR doesn’t mention a god – possibly plural gods (I only remember one mention of gods, from season 1, though) – so where does that figure of speech originate? Regardless, I definitely agree with you that the Samhain thing can be explained as analogous to modern secular society celebrating Christmas.
1st March 2021 @ 4:08 am
-And about Agravaine ā I think his character would have totally benefited from arriving at Camelot this episode (or maybe, in the third episode? Who knows), instead of already being there. Then we could get some backstory on why he only appears now. Maybe something more about Igraine. He’d also totally benefit on not being immediately exposed as a traitor. Let the viewers puzzle him out along with Arthur for once!-
I was thinking about this, timeline-wise. It’s been a year since end of S3, yes? But Arthur says, iirc, “you’ve been such a help, Uncle, these past months” … if it had been the full year, I feel like he would have said “this past year” ? So at what point exactly did Agravaine turn up? (I haven’t rewatched all of S4 yet, so if this gets addressed later, I’ll eat my words here later lol!) If he’s the bestest uncle ever (or even the scheming-est), why didn’t he turn up right away when Arthur took over control? Was Arthur maybe able to conceal Uther’s condition for awhile, but then word kind of got out? Did Arthur send for Agravaine at some point? I have questions. š
1st March 2021 @ 11:22 am
I have questions too – we all seem to. At the same time, I already know Agravaine is a traitor, that Merlin will uncover him eventually and then he’ll disappear from the story. So, I don’t really bother asking my questions. It’s a real shame though – Nathaniel Parker is a great actor and he is wasted on such a role.
2nd March 2021 @ 5:25 am
I accidentally posted this at the top — reposting here for convenience but sorry for the spam!
I have all of these questions too! I also think it would be amazing to have an episode about Agravaineās arrival in Camelot and why he came when he didā¦it would be much more meaningful if we felt like we were closer to this character, instead of immediately seeing him as a traitor and a bit creepy. I love the actor, agreed with Mary that itās a shame he isnāt written well.
2nd March 2021 @ 4:26 pm
no problem at all, fixed it š
M Xx