Episode II.II: The Once And Future Queen
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19th April 2020 @ 3:37 pm
Not one of my favorites. I’m really not seeing the romance. I don’t find the chemistry between Arthur and Gwen to be believable (I thought Arthur and Morgana had more chemistry, heck even Arthur and Lancelot). I did like that Arthur learned a lesson in humility (from Sir Leon and Gwen) but that he didn’t seem to apply it to Merlin which made me want to shake Arthur and put some sense into that head of his. I really enjoyed the jousting, though. And Sir William was hilarious.
Oh, and Mary’s comment about maybe Gwen running a bordello just makes me laugh. Someone should write a fanfic about that (that the neighbors think she’s running one, not that she’s actually doing it).
28th May 2020 @ 2:13 pm
(I know this is super old, I’m just behind whoops) I’m interested to hear why you don’t buy the chemistry between Gwen and Arthur and see more between Morgana and Arthur.
I do love the snippets of Morgana and Arthur’s little quarrels that are typical between people who are fond of each other and comfortable with them enough not to try to please them. Something the show could have played around with more is how neutral the ground is between them- Morgana is happy to be a soundboard for Arthur and to urge him to follow his heart sort of thing. Arthur does sort of flip-flop his alliance to Uther around her almost because he is comfortable for her to see that unsure, imperfect side of himself. This is something that I interpret as quite unromantic.
But then again it is hard to tell since we don’t really get any love interests for Morgana (if I remember correctly), which is quite interesting. All we get are the little snippets of her being a bit saucy (mainly to annoy Arthur) like in Valiant, so we don’t know what Morgana is like when she is in love. I suppose as a character she is maybe a little sexualised but not really romanticised? Ok new idea that I am going to take forward and test is that Morgana doesn’t really bond with male characters as well as she does with women- and even then she does not get very close with many.
18th February 2020 @ 11:00 pm
Okay, I know this is really close to the deadline for lessons. I wrote them all down as I listened to your podcast & re-watched the episode and then forgot to post. Just made it though… 🙂
Firstly, this is in reply to your reply to my comment on the Sigan episode. You couldn’t remember Merlin’s key-stealing antics in season 4: It’s in episode 4.4 (Aithusa) when Merlin tries to steal the keys from Arthur’s room while he is sleeping (Arthur not Merlin obviously) to give to the baddie to steal 1/3 of the triskelion. Arthur obviously wakes up and Merlin makes up some stupid and hilarious excuse about listening for woodworm.
Now on to the lessons for the Once and Future Queen.
1. Uther has actually learned a lesson this week (really!); Odin has too! Both kings now know not to fill their bags with actual coins of gold if they need to reward/pay/bribe someone. The someone won’t count the money or even check that there is actual money in the bags. (Neither Myror nor the spy from Odin’s court that went to inform Uther about Myror look into the bag of (maybe) gold that was tossed to them. They make it easy for kings to be corrupt!)
2. The producers have learned two lessons: a) If you manage to get yourself a Sir Leon, make sure you keep your Sir Leon! (Ýay, he has finally appeared!) b) The combination of Arthur and chicken in an episode about love is always a great idea. Like Michelle said: OTP. Or destiny, if you will. 🙂
3. This one is a little dark: The people of Camelot, most especially Gwen’s neighbours, have learned that apart from being maid to Morgana, Gwen is running some really dodgy side business in her house. Strange men come and go, often hidden under cloaks. Merlin is either the most needy of them or he’s her pimp because he is often the one bringing these strangers to Gwen’s house, running in and out without knocking. He even once brings a mattress! The neighbours have also noticed that Gwen has started wearing an abundance of flowers in her hair and applying blush. One neighbour reports that there was a creepy dude lurking at night outside Gwen’s house and staring through her window at something going on inside! Also, all of Camelot saw how Gwen ran to help the injured champion, Sir William, in the final, clearly concerned for him, disappearing into his tent, ‘tending’ to him. The neighbours all agree that something fishy is going on and that Sir William and Gwen must have some sort of ‘history’!
This isn’t so much a lesson, more a note: How did Gwen not realise before the end of the dinner that Arthur could not have cooked for her? Apart from the fact that Arthur somehow ‘grew’ vegetables, like you said, she should have noticed that the house wasn’t warmed up by the fire, there were no dirty dishes to be washed and the stack of firewood was still exactly the same size. Also, if someone cooks in your house, the house will smell of food. A lot. Much more than the house smells when you just ‘unwrap’ food that was delivered.
Also (and then I’ll stop), to pitch in with the discussion about why Arthur seems to ‘learn’ about humility and treating people right when Gwen is around and forgets it the moment Merlin walks in: perhaps this is related to the issue of Merlin being basically treated as asexual by the show. And not just as asexual but almost as ahuman. As the show progresses, Arthur does become nicer, more humble, more appreciative towards pretty much everyone – everyone but Merlin. This lack of development in their relationship and inconsistency in Arthur’s character has actually bothered me from the first time I watched the show. In a nutshell, I became more and more confused and frustrated why Arthur and Merlin weren’t better friends yet, why Arthur still treated Merlin in many ways as badly as he did in the first episode. I mean, I know it was meant to be funny and we were supposed to see that there was greater trust growing between the two men. But I just found that so hard to believe because the way they treated each other did not (for me) show enough evidence of this to actually be credible. I guess the writers were hampered by the fact that Arthur couldn’t actually get too close to Merlin because otherwise his inability to notice Merlin’s magic at every turn would make even less sense than it does anyway. So, instead, nothing that applies to other humans in the show applies to Merlin: Arthur wants equality (i.e. the peasant knights) but not for Merlin; Arthur learns to appreciate people but not Merlin; People fall in love and have relationships but Merlin can’t. So, in this way, the entire show basically evolves around Merlin being the outsider of outsiders and the exception to everything. Hope this makes some sense.
18th February 2020 @ 3:22 am
Rewatching this fantastic show with my ten year old daughter, along with your podcast. She learned she can speak up when she’s being mistreated and still be loved and respected for it. Right on, Gwen!
I was reminded how confused I was when I first saw this episode and heard Arthur say, “how to speak to someone I care about.” Say what? What did I miss? I have a clear memory of wanting to rewind to the beginning because I didn’t recall seeing any indication Arthur had the slightest interest in Gwen until he spoke those words. He was staying at her house for days and not even a glance in her direction or kind word. Zilch. Then he suddenly cares for her after she gives him a piece of her mind. That’s just too sudden for me.
That said, I do love this episode! And it breaks my heart it fell so low in your ranking!! Petty, petty little annoyances in my opinion!
17th February 2020 @ 1:54 pm
Oh no, my comment got posted when I was editing it. I’m so sorry for that. I was just about to say that this was my third time watching the series, and it’s been such a delight listening to your podcast while doing so. I find it so hilarious and insightful.
On that second paragraph, I started talking about my thoughts regarding this episode specifically. I think during Arthur’s exchange with Gwen (about finding out the sleeping arrangements), Arthur completely missed the point that Gwen was trying to come across. What I got from the interaction is that Arthur likes/found it refreshing that Gwen was so straight-forward with him. And for Arthur, it was more about Gwen speaking up about the situation than anything else. It is also interesting for me that Merlin, who Arthur considers his one true friend, also exhibits this trait. He’s not afraid to speak up to him, or chide him about things even if he’s the prince. But in Merlin and Arthur’s case, there’s this banter and a very different dynamic altogether, which I think the show capitalizes on for comedic purposes, ultimately undermining the characters actual growth and relationships. So yeah I think it would have been really nice if the episode focused on the little things as well and at least showed Arthur trying to contemplate about the things Gwen pointed out and actually change some of his appalling princely habits. I’m aware it’s not easy for him but he could have tried, baby steps and all that.
This episode has some glaring issues, but it’s an episode I’d probably rewatch in the future. Also, I love this podcast and both of you are amazing. I look forward to the next episode.
17th February 2020 @ 1:10 pm
Hello. I’ve recently started listening to this podcast and I’ve just caught up with your latest episode. It’s my third time watching the series
I enjoyed it very much, mostly because of the jousting tournament and Arthur’s endearing antics, but I do agree that there are problems with it especially with his character growth and the things he should have learned.
The things Gwen pointed out in her meltdown didn’t really get through to Arthur. Not a minute after that exchange, he did to Merlin the opposite of what Gwen was asking him to do.
The lesson Arthur should have learned is that he should be sensitive to the plights of the people around him, stop being so damn rude and appreciate the efforts of the people who does things for him, no matter how seemingly small those things are. The lesson he actually learned is that honesty is a very attractive trait in a person, which is true and a good realization to have. But it would be amazing if he also learned the first one. I still liked this episode tho, and it’s something I’d probably rewatch in the fu
15th February 2020 @ 11:55 am
My lesson of the episode is embodied in one of my favourite Merlin lines: “I have everything to prove, to myself.” Arthur starts off with something simple like proving he can legit beat those guys. Then he ends up seeing the bigger life lesson, that ultimately it is ourselves we are trying to prove something to; we must live up to our own ideals. It’s one of my favourite quotes from anything and really spoke to me when I originally watched the episode. Sure you’re trying to impress others, parents, but the real fight is trying to live up to your own ideals.
Also, I like that this line subverts the chivalric idea of a knight doing things to prove himself to a lady. So to me, Arthur isn’t doing this for Gwen/the fair lady. He’s doing this to live up to his own ideals of honesty (even though “this” is very silly if you take it literally as dying in a joust).
Other thoughts:
I love the basis of the Arthur/Gwen romance –he chooses her because she’ll give him the truth, and she sees good in him underneath the immaturity. But yeah some of the details of their exchange is shambolic or illogical. I love the sanitised Disney kiss though. I know some people see that as Arthur/Gwen not having chemistry. But to me the lack of passion in the kisses show their inexperience and innocence which makes them (especially a confident prince like Arthur) super endearing to me. : )
14th February 2020 @ 1:54 am
Ooh ok re: shirtlessness, I have some complicated thoughts about Merlin and magic and asexuality that I shall attempt to untangle. I hope it’s coherent. I like your observation of Merlin being mostly sexless more than my initial interpretation of him being young, actually. Arthur’s character is defined by romance (in both the genre sense and the love sense), which places him in a specifically masculine position: the chivalric knight, protector of women and children, etc. According to the conventions of the genre, he has to be straight and stereotypically masculine. The show can and does at times subvert that, but it’s still sort of his default setting. Merlin, on the other hand, is an amalgam of tropes – he’s the kid thrown into a brand new world, he’s the reluctant chosen one, he’s the runt of the litter (see him next to the knights, for example) – and he’s ambivalent in terms of gender roles. His personality is androgynous. He’s protective, but it leads him to self-sacrifice rather than overt heroism; he’s nurturing and caring, he is the nurse to Gaius’ doctor. He’s not coded as feminine, exactly, though either – he’s just Merlin. I like that Merlin isn’t a sexual character (and I personally headcanon him to be ace/aro but that’s somewhat separate from the show itself) in part because I feel like if the show were to give him a lasting relationship then it would end up characterising Merlin in a more overtly gendered way, in contrast with the other person (ie making him more straight and manly, or if they made him gay they’d make him more ‘feminine’, and neither feel true to his character).
Regarding lessons, it really bothers me that Arthur doesn’t seem to apply the lessons he learnt from Gwen to Merlin; like you said, it seems like the writing undermines the character growth and makes it seem like he just does it for the pretty girl. It’s a common thread I’m only noticing now (watching the show properly for the first time since I was a kid, since I always find rewatching anything hard), where Merlin IS overworked (the rant in 2×2 is justified) but the writing tends to treat it like a joke, or like it can’t decide if Merlin is a whiny kid or legitimately struggling. Arthur’s treatment of Merlin is of genuine concern at times – generally, though, it’s at its worse when the writers decided some levity was needed. Arthur can be verbally cruel at times, and callous – it borders on abusive, as Arthur publicly humiliates Merlin and insults him in front of the court and other knights. But we know Arthur’s a good guy, and that Merlin sees Arthur as a good guy at heart, so we have to take it on trust that it isn’t fucking up Merlin as badly as I know it would fuck me up to be treated that way… so basically it’s that the writers like to use Merlin as a comedic punching bag. So, whereas Merlin COULD have learnt a lesson here – that he doesn’t have to be treated like shit by Arthur – and Arthur COULD have learnt that the way he treats his perceived inferiors is callous, the writing won’t allow it, because the show relies on Arthur being a dick to Merlin to lighten up dark moments in the script, blurring the lines between friendly teasing and outright bullying as it suits them.
13th February 2020 @ 4:41 pm
Arthur is “mean” to Merlin because is asking him about Qwen and Arthur doesn’t want him to know he likes her. Just typical guy deflecting. He’s also mean when Merlin challenges his arrogance. Its Arthur deflecting.
Gaius and Merlin are pretty typical father and teen. When Merlin comes in with Chicken and Gaius apologized Merlin gives a look like a typical teen getting away with something. He got stuck cleaning the leech tank because he lied Gaius.
The episode is aptly titled because this is the moment Gwen moves from servant to the center of Arthur’s heart. Merlin is his conscience; but, once he falls in love with Gwen she becomes his heart.
Yes it’s the perfect first kiss!