Check out The List of Destiny to see where we ranked all Merlin episodes so far and write in for our Lessons Learnt game by Sunday midnight, the week after the episode airs.
Visit Poetry & Chicken to delight in our listener’s creative output.
I have been waiting for this episode because we finally get some focus on Gwen and Morgana. I have thoughts, but I will try to keep it short. I’m really only focusing on these two.
I think this show did itself a great disservice by not giving these two a decent storyline for the characters themselves, but also one that could have mirrored Merlin and Arthur in some way to give more depth to everyone’s story. This really should have been a Gwen and Morgana episode. I mean if Gaius got an entire episode on his rando relationship, these two should have one about theirs. I mean, there is no reckoning of their years together. I wanted that as a viewer. Yet, the show does not do that. It also sucks that is the one episode where we get a focus on Gwen and Morgana and get the team dynamic from the knights. As you mentioned in the podcast, it should have been one or the other. The cut back and forth takes away from both situations, but I rather see Gwen and Morgana since we’ve only had snippets of them interacting since season 3.
Plus, I know many may not agree, but this show always gave me the impression that Morgana had an obsession of some sort for Gwen. It may have been a jealous of her time and attention with their friendship or something more. And I use that lens when watching this episode. I think back to the finale of season 3 when Morgana asked Gwen to join her in this “new” Camelot when she did not have to. Morgana had Morguese, and she was mighty mad when Gwen betrayed her. And while the Lancelot storyline in s4 was really bad writing, I also think it was Morgana just being petty and targeting Gwen because she was mad at her (for choosing Arthur). Like why not target Arthur since he’s the one with your crown? And her dreaming of Gwen as queen was also an interesting angle. Why not focus on Arthur becoming king? And in season four when she ripped Gwen’s wedding band necklace off with a lot of gusto and anger. I know it would have given Gwen away as a deer, but… Not saying that means anything, and could be just bad writing, but it’s just an interesting pattern to me.
I think one thing missing in this episode was Merlin and Gwen’s friendship. It seemed as if Merlin was doing this to help Arthur get Gwen back, and not so much that they were friends at one time. I miss their friendship.
Lastly, did Morgana cook the chicken herself? And why didn’t she clear off all the cobwebs off the table, especially with the candles around? And does she own a brush? Her hair is getting wilder. Is this supposed to indicate her mental state as we continue through these last episodes?
I mean, there is no reckoning of their years together. –
I know. I commented further down how all other relationships had to pale and cease to exist in order for them to foreground Merlin and Arthur’s relationship. I don’t know why they thought they had to. I personally think it would still leave Arthur and Merlin as special to each other, especially when put in comparison and contrast with others. Throughout the show, I wished we had more of a sense that Morgana and Gwen used to be friends and, like you pointed out, we get snippets here and there. But it’s not enough and this episode could have been really something but isn’t.
Of all the episodes of Merlin, I always thought this was the most downright scary. The first time I watched this (and after the trauma that was The Disir), I actually seriously considered not finishing the series. I also think the nature of the Mandrake scenes are the reason we cut away from them so swiftly as they are really quite frightening and not really suitable for a family show. That’s why they might have chosen not to linger on them.
I love how the first scene with Elyan and Gwen at their father’s grace harks back to the intimacy and sibling relationship they had in ‘Castle of Fyrien’. And it equally makes me furious: such a short scene, two lines of dialogue, that does so much. Why couldn’t we have had this all the way through? And later on, Elyan says that Gwen raised him – why don’t we know more of this? I think the problem with Elyan’s death, why it doesn’t really have enough of an impact here, is that his identity as a knight was always as ‘The knight that is Gwen’s brother’ – but they forgot that, stripping him of any recognisable and memorable character at all. (For one episode, he was the knight who was possessed by a druid child but that was basically forgotten after the end of the credits.) They didn’t make us care about him and this one episode just isn’t enough for us to get there emotionally. They do try to get us there, mostly through the music, actually. When Elyan dies in the Dark Tower, we play the soundtrack of Merlin’s father dying and then neatly transition into Freya’s funeral theme for Elyan’s funeral. So, they are pulling out all the stops but we just had too little of Elyan throughout the series and the music now just feels like they realised and really tried to force the emotional impact anyway.
There is a thing I have noticed that Katie does every time after Morgana casts a spell: she watches the spell take effect for a moment and then smiles in triumph and, although it could just be evil smirking, if it is instead a sort of continuing wonder and gladness that Morgana has this ability and it obeys her, I think it’s really nice. And Katie uses it consistently perhaps commenting both on how far Morgana’s magic has progressed and in how far she herself is still in awe of her abilities and celebrates using them after having to hide for so long.
I was going to complain that the knights didn’t look for Gwen after they were attacked by the snakes. But I do think that they saw her ride away and assumed that she had made it back to the castle safely and ahead of them. However, that doesn’t bode well for their tracking skills – although they might have been too distracted by Percival and Leon to look out for traces of Gwen’s horse.
I don’t know if anyone has seen those videos but Eoin Macken and Tom Hopper shot this film called Cold and then invited a bunch of their Merlin co-stars to be part of a panel at ‘Cold Con’. Colin was there and someone asked a question about the most difficult scene or something. And then quite a few of them talked about this scene in episode 6 which had such ridiculous dialogue that none of them, not even Colin, could keep a straight face. Alex Vlahos, who was also there, said that he couldn’t remember and the others told him that he wasn’t in the scene. I almost think it must have been the one what with Percival and Leon’s odd dream and the apple pie and cheese. It would certainly fit all the criteria. So, now, each time I watch it, I try to focus on people in the background supressing their laughter because apparently they couldn’t get a single shot where someone wasn’t laughing. (If someone has another contender for the scene, please let me know.) But really, whatever the scene, their little anecdote also tells me that we certainly aren’t the only ones who picked up on the awfulness of some of the writing. I can imagine them sitting over a new script, trying to decide whether to groan with frustration or laugh. And then groan anyway because they somehow had to breathe life and meaning and emotional engagement into such a scene.
When Arthur tells his knights that he will go on to the Dark Tower alone, we have got a bit of an echo of the Round Table where each knight pledges their loyalty to Gwen as they did to Arthur back then. They even all stand in a bit of a circle. It’s kind of nice seeing especially considering where things will lead in the future – of course, that’d be assuming this was done intentionally. I also like that Merlin was given a choice.
I am not really sure what kind of visions the Mandrakes are supposed to cause. Uther seemed to see all those that represented his guilt. But Gwen just sees those she loves torment her and turn against her, sees them out of character. So do they show fears rather than guilt? That would mean that Uther’s greatest fear was his guilt, to face it, admit to it, deal with it – which of course would tie in well with the Purge he started to lay the blame elsewhere.
How does Morgana get access to all these places? Ismere, the Dark Tower? Is there some sort of ‘real estate rentals for evil sorcerers’ that she keeps going back to if different places don’t work out? And once again, why exactly does she abandon the Dark Tower as her abode at the end of this episode?
The Queen Mab scene is excellent and so out there. I love how we suddenly go extremely faery tale and touch upon the realm of myth that we are familiar with from other sources. Also, I can’t help thinking of Romeo and Juliet and Mercutio’s speech about Queen Mab deceiving people in their dreams. Since dreams and being led by them into treacherous places is one of the elements of this story, I wonder if Queen Mab collaborated with Morgana to provide the dreams. Maybe not because she is bad or good, just because she wanted to.
I love this new bit of magic Merlin is able to perform, to see the path ahead. As a knight, I would, however, wonder why he didn’t speak up about getting everyone to the Tower the night before but waited until the second day. It’s cool the way Colin says the line, “Trust me just this once.” It sounds like he says, “I know the excuse about the sea smell is ridiculous. I can’t tell you the real reason but there is one and please trust me.”
Just also wanted to call out Angel Coulby for basically spending an episode alone in a set with some hanging rubber mandrakes, some creepy lighting and having to act scared and crying. The sad part of course is that when fake Arthur appears to Gwen and speaks to her so gently at first, I get much more genuine relationship between a married couple than I have got so far from both of them all season. ☹
I had a theory: the way that Gwen goes out to meet Morgana in the woods and her complete and unquestioning conversion to Morgana’s side is so reminiscent of Morgana that I wonder whether Morgause also enchanted her in a similar way. Obviously, this begs many questions: what has happened to the spell now that Morgause is dead? Did her death cement the enchantment forever? Is Morgana becoming so twisted and ludicrous in her pursuit because she no longer has her ‘enchantress’ to guide her?
Fascination Frustration 11th October 2021 @ 11:40 am
–But I do think that they saw her ride away and assumed that she had made it back to the castle safely and ahead of them. —
thanks for that! genuinly hadn’t occured to me that of course when they tell her to ride away, they expect her to ride back to camelot, and so they bring the wounded back, and then realise she’s not there… that makes a LOT of sense, so yeah, thank you!! 🙂
I like how Morgana is reusing an old trick of Morgause’s – I feel it really reads in Katie’s performance that Morgana constantly dwells on and can’t let go of the past. She’s melancholy and contemplative in this episode, perhaps remembering her sister and that she is alone.
Also, I don’t know much about horse riding, but if Gwen was knocked from her saddle with enough force to break the straps, why is her saddle still on the horse? Did Morgana really tie up Gwen’s horse and go to all the trouble of neatly arranging the saddle as a big “Haha F U I had plenty of time to do this because you suck” to Arthur?
I understand that Tony Head probably wouldn’t have been able to come back as a glowing ghost-dude AGAIN. Still, it would have been interesting for Gwen to see hallucinations of Uther after all the trauma he’d caused her. Perhaps they decided to ease up after the first couple of seasons, but I don’t understand why they didn’t actually go scarier with the trauma in this episode. In Season 3, I believe, Uther saw his dead wife begging him for mercy at the bottom of a well and visions of the innocent magical children he had had cruelly drowned. Gaius actually talked about it! And in Season 1, Edwin Muerden talked about throwing himself onto the pyre to desperately try to save his parents from the flames. I don’t really think you can get much darker than that. I get that this is maybe-sort-of supposed to be the Golden Age of Camelot, but I wish they would have tried to incorporate more of that earlier horror in there.
This episode has come full circle for Morgana’s relationships in a way. I’m not sure if anyone has discussed this before, but Morgana’s character arc – what little of one there is – is a heartbreaking example of self-fulfilling prophecy in psychology. Here’s a link if you want to read more about it: https://www.britannica.com/topic/self-fulfilling-prophecy
Morgana’s self-fulfilling prophecy started when Uther taught Morgana that magic is evil and that sorcerers are corrupt, even evil people. He reinforced this by executing anyone even associated with magic like criminals. As a result, Morgana feared her own powers and thought that her family would at the very least hate her, if not burn her at the stake. She learned to cope by developing hatred for her father and everything he held dear, ultimately self-sabotaging her most valuable relationships and feeding the stereotype that all sorcerers are evil. Morgana became the very monster Uther had taught her to fear. Now, anytime anyone tries to stop her destructive behavior, Morgana interprets the reaction through the belief that everyone in Camelot hates her because of her magic, placing the blame squarely at their feet and leaving none for herself. By this episode, Morgana has no one left – in one way or another, she has played a role in the loss of every significant relationship she had. It’s unbearably tragic that the initial belief that family and friends would never accept her has led Morgana to self-sabotage to the point that she must now resort to brainwashing her once closest friend to have anything even remotely resembling love and acceptance.
Sidenote: At the funeral, Merlin is wearing blue on blue because he’s blue.
Fascination Frustration 11th October 2021 @ 11:53 am
— if Gwen was knocked from her saddle with enough force to break the straps, why is her saddle still on the horse? —
lol yeah, that… this weeks episode, the entire plot hinges on arthur’s saddle having been restitched so it would break. yet, when he falls from the horse, the saddle stays on… I totally get that it’s one thing to have a stunt that involved a rider falling from a hrose (in a controlled manner), and a completely different thing to rig a saddle to break and a rider to fall at the same time (really not a controlled manner). and trying to rig saddle to break, to make it controlled, and to then have a rider fall in the safest way possible… it’s all just a bit much. but if you’re making entire plot lines rely on it, then it would be better to not show us, and just tell us instead, so we don’t have to ask these questions…
I’ve kept your self fulfilling prophecy write in for the season 5 round up, as I think that will be super interesting to discuss across all of the season.. thank you!
Thanks for explaining the self-fulfilling prophecy with regards to Morgana. That’s really quite accurate. And I think she’s not the only person trapped in such a cycle. I’m looking forward to Michelle and Ruth discussing this in the round-up.
Evil Gwen: my least favourite storyline! The ‘torture’ could have delved into Gwen’s actual insecurities. Like the one about not having an heir. Since childlessness was a crucial part of Uther’s story why is there no mention of Arthur’s feelings of possibly being in the same situation? Maybe he’s pragmatic about it but this still causes Gwen distress -it could have been what the evil Arthur in the tower brings up. Each of the evil versions of her loved ones could have had an agenda rather than the flimsy laughs. And Gwen, in conversing with them, could have had some character development.
I’m sure we’re not meant to read into it, but I wish we didn’t have the slavery imagery in the desert scene.
MINOR SPOILER:
Especially because Gwen, a Woman of Colour, loses all agency due to this arc and it ends with her being rescued by a bunch of white men. And on top of that the first knight to go is the only POC. 😞
That aside, great visuals in that scene and this week’s cover art captures it beautifully. 😊 I loved Arthur’s frustrated moments and everyone’s navigational skills, magical or otherwise! I found it a bit annoying that Merlin kept mentioning the promise, making it less about Gwen and more about his loyalty to Arthur…I’m not a fan of Merlin becoming Arthur-centric. I wish he was the one saying ‘she’s our friend.’ Also Arthur’s ‘I can’t lose her again’ would have been more meaningful if everyone knew Morgana enchanted Gwen into the cheating.
Loved that Arthur and Gwen bit in the end. We only get a glimpse of Arthur but from the way he’s burrowing his face into her shoulder you can sense how much he’s relieved to have her back and won’t ever let go. Beautifully intimate without crossing the family rating!
-Since childlessness was a crucial part of Uther’s story why is there no mention of Arthur’s feelings of possibly being in the same situation?
I wonder if they didn’t compare Arthur’s lack of an heir to Uther’s because they couldn’t do a similar situation with Merlin? Balinor had an illegitimate child he didn’t know about, but as far as we know, Merlin hasn’t had the chance to do more than kiss a girl because the ones he likes are either evil or die, not to mention that his devotion to Arthur and destiny keeps him pretty busy. The plot has isolated Merlin so much that his development has stopped being an opposite mirror to Arthur’s. In this regard- that of the next generation – Merlin simply cannot be the other side of the coin.
*Correction: I forgot about Sefa haha, so evil is a probably a poor word choice. Unfortunately antagonistic towards Merlin’s goals is more like it haha.
That’s a fabulous point…I can’t decide whether I’m upset that they didn’t even touch on the matter of an heir for Arthur and Gwen, or grateful that they didn’t do a sort of half hearted attempt…
Fascination Frustration 11th October 2021 @ 11:12 am
totally with you on that! on one hand ‘how can this not be a hot button topic???’ on the other hand ‘oh god, can you imagine what they would have done with it…’ =/
Especially because Gwen, a Woman of Colour, loses all agency due to this arc and it ends with her being rescued by a bunch of white men. And on top of that the first knight to go is the only POC. 😞 –
I know, this also, apart from anything else such as this shoddy choice of a storyline for Gwen, makes me uncomfortable.
I’m not a fan of Merlin becoming Arthur-centric. I wish he was the one saying ‘she’s our friend.’ Also Arthur’s ‘I can’t lose her again’ would have been more meaningful if everyone knew Morgana enchanted Gwen into the cheating. –
Me neither. I don’t know why they did it. But basically, so that Arthur and Merlin’s relationship could be central, Merlin had to forego any other minor relationship and those other characters lost their individuality. It’s a shame and, like you said, it wouldn’t have taken away from anything if Merlin had wanted to find Gwen because of their friendship. That’s caring for Arthur also and the audience is clever enough to understand that.
So happy with these discussions/podcasts – they’re really helping me come to terms with season 5 in all it’s imperfections!
This episode is not a favourite – although this last viewing brought me some joy in an unexpected way.
This time around, I was struck by how in her dastardly plan, Morgana created a situation where she gets to act with kindness and compassion, specifically towards Gwen.
I don’t think this is by coincidence. Morgana chose this role for herself – a role that demanded her to provide comfort for her former friend, and ultimately, create a relationship that echos the one she had with Morgause.
I’ve been waiting for a long time for the show to suggest Morgana has some subconscious conflict about the betrayal of her past life. Unless I’ve missed something from previous episodes, I haven’t seen it. So I’m claiming this as evidence! In the season opener, she sought to get a sense of connection to the past and friendship from Mordred, but was rejected. So she figured out a way of evil-ing that included hugs with her previous closest friend.
-I don’t think this is by coincidence. Morgana chose this role for herself – a role that demanded her to provide comfort for her former friend, and ultimately, create a relationship that echos the one she had with Morgause.
This whole episode I thought that Morgana must have been ruminating over the loss of her sister since Morgause was the one who taught her the mandrake spell, but it didn’t even occur to me that Morgana had gone this far. Looking back at Katie’s performance, I can see what you’re talking about. It’s small, but I think it’s there! 🙂
I never really thought about what you both have brought up. But now it’s so obvious. I do like that we give this nod to ‘good’ Morgana. That person is still in there somewhere, wishing to help and protect. But Morgana is now so twisted that it can only find its outlet this way. And I also like that you both pointed out the echo of the relationship with Morgause. Morgana, like every person, still needs to be loved and valued, needs companionship. But she will only allow herself this if she remains the controller and manipulator in the relationship. Again, she has taken on the part the Morgause used to play with her which seems to confirm my own theory that perhaps, to get Morgana on her side, Morgause used an equal enchantment with her as Morgana does with Gwen. Only, no one loved Morgana enough or looked out for her to break the spell as SPOILER people will do for Gwen in future episodes.
Poor Morgana – and that’s the first time I have felt sorry for her in a long time.
I need to start out by saying that there is apparently a way to tell north and south using ivy according to the internet even if it doesn’t seem to work the way Arthur explains it. I had to look it up and now I know more about plants and directions than I ever wanted to.
This episode was alright, not the best but not bad. I don’t have any strong feelings beyond confusion about the timing of this episode. Mostly just why do this halfway through season 5? I know we’re doing this for 4 episodes and it’s such a weird choice for Gwen’s character especially at this point in the show. What could possibly be the point of this. I wonder if it would have worked better in season 4 if we replaced the Lancelot du lac nonsense with this.
I really wish they had done more with Gwen this season and even though it’s great that she’s getting to do stuff I hate that this is how they’re doing it.
I’m opposed to the general concept of this episode but I do like all the Gwen and Morgana stuff. I would have been fine with this just being the entire episode. We could spend 90% of our time with Morgana playing mind games and Gwen’s slow descent into the place she’s in at the end and I would still dislike the premise but enjoy the episode a lot more.
I really like what Angel Coulby is doing in the Mandrake room scenes but I really wish we didn’t see the ghosts or whatever those were. Just hearing the voices and seeing shadows would have been far more effective and the weirdly lit ghosts just took me out of it. This show can do the horror thing pretty well when it wants to and I wish they’d gone full horror.
I have a headcanon for how the whole Queen Mab stuff and impenetrable forest thing would really work well with the Perilous Lands and the Fisher King stuff. So he was a magical king wasn’t he? And as the world outside turned hostile against magic the magical creatures and stuff inside his realm basically made it impenetrable to anyone without magic as a defense mechanism. That could be why it’s so easily crossed with magic but not by anyone else. And why Arthur didn’t meet any obstacles on the way in eye of the phoenix because his challenge was getting the bracelet to the tower.
I actually like the knights this episode and I wish we had this for the entirety of season 4. Also a very small thing but I find it really funny when Arthur tries to frame letting their king go off into a dangerous situation to rescue their queen as a choice because it is literally their job! What are they going to do say no?? I really love the sentiment but it’s always funny to me.
Everyone has already talked about the weirdness surrounding funeral rites so I’m not going to add to that. But if this is a traditional funeral for knights then I find the idea of Merlin giving Freya and shade Lancelot a proper knight’s funeral really sweet and it kind of accidentally ties into the whole Merlin is a knight of magic and holding Gilli to a knight’s standards and all that.
I wish we knew Elyan better but that can’t be helped at this point. I was expecting his death to be a bigger deal but it just wasn’t. I really like his funeral though so that’s something I guess.
I love Morgana and her Disney villian vibe so much. I don’t even care about logic anymore. I’m just going to enjoy watching Katie McGrath evilly eat fruits and carry out nonsensical plans for the rest of the show.
I have absolutely no faith in their ability to give me a good Gwen story anymore but I’m looking forward to seeing Angel Coulby’s version of evil Gwen and hoping that we atleast have fun with that.
I would like to conclude this long rambling comment by mentioning that I really love the art for this episode! And am looking forward to next week!
And I really like your head canon about magic and magical beings basically hiding themselves away, because the world sucks and has become a hostile place for them!
it’s such a weird choice for Gwen’s character especially at this point in the show. What could possibly be the point of this. –
I think it’s honestly because they couldn’t figure out what to do with Gwen (a woman) after she had been married. It is so odd and I wish it didn’t comment on the writers and producers quite so much. But it does, doesn’t it?
Everyone has already talked about the weirdness surrounding funeral rites so I’m not going to add to that. But if this is a traditional funeral for knights then I find the idea of Merlin giving Freya and shade Lancelot a proper knight’s funeral really sweet and it kind of accidentally ties into the whole Merlin is a knight of magic and holding Gilli to a knight’s standards and all that. –
I like the link you made here. Yes, I’d almost forgotten that we declared Merlin the Knight for Magic and that it was the Fisher King episode (which is a bit of a companion to this one) where we did so.
I was looking forward to hearing you talk about this episode, and I was not disappointed (not that I ever am :D)
This episode is one of my favourites in the season, but that doesn’t speak much about season 5 as a whole haha. It’s another episode where I’m more a fan of the potential and ‘what ifs’ version of it, rather than the finished result itself. I’ve enjoyed fanfiction set in this episode much more, there are some crazy talented writers out there who reimagined and wrote it better. Maybe it suffers for the same reason as many plots do in the show, because of the age rating.
So right off the bat, there’s Gwen’s and Elyan’s relationship. We’ve seen nothing of it until now, not really. Arthur’s and Elyan’s relationship, we’ve seen nothing of it, nothing that stands out. At least the show is consistent in its theme of making two characters suddenly very close only in the same episode one of them is gonna die in.. Plus, I know this show doesn’t really establish a strong castle hierarchy, but being brother to the queen of Camelot and thus brother-in-law to the king must give Elyan a higher ranking in the knights than he is… or is this where the equality thing comes in? Because Leon is still Captain, right?
I don’t get Tom’s grave. Where is it, why is it here, why does it look like that? Was it made when he was first buried there, did it exist before as Gwen’s mother’s grave? Gwen’s a queen now, her parents, no matter only being peasants, need a bit better a grave than this. Until you guys mentioned it, I kept forgetting the circumstances around Tom’s death. Yes, he was accused and executed for conspiring to commit treason via magic rebels. We saw his body get carted away. Did Gwen have to pay to get his body back? Now he has a sort of grave because he’s been pardoned by Arthur? Has every person’s funeral since Arthur’s coronation been a viking funeral? If the show clearly established that Camelot’s burial rights were different from other lands or people, it would be less confusing. They don’t even have to bring religion into it. Camelot=prefer to bury their dead, bodies and all. Magic people=prefer to set the bodies on fire on lakes to return their essence to the land. Simple. “This is a bizarre a-religious world where religion plays a huge role.” You said it, Ruth!
“He was a good father” Weeeell that screws up my headcanon that Elyan and Tom never got along which is why he ran off and never got in touch again. Of course, it’s nice that Elyan may be the type to ‘never speak ill of the dead’ especially in front of his sister who adores their father, but I would have loved a little more context from Elyan about his life. Ya know…. Before he dies soon. “We didn’t see eye to eye and I regret not seeing him in his last years, but he was a good father to have raised you, Gwen.” Something like that. He wasn’t even there for the burial, he could say something meaningful and personalized now.
I love the conversation between the knights and Gwen. Why couldn’t there have been scenes like this everywhere in this season? I actually remember when I first watched this episode years ago, I thought for a moment this conversation about ‘who’s in love’ was hinting that Elyan had a secret girl, and when he dies, he leaves her and a possible babby behind that Gwen and Arthur would later discover and have to support. Don’t know why I ever thought that, active imagination obviously haha.
“Arthur never tells me anything.” And here we are, evidence that poor Gwen and Arthur’s relationship is a shadow of what it was. This is why I have such a strong headcanon in my mind as I mentioned in other episodes that Arthur and Gwen are going through a rough patch that’s lasted since before the season started, and it’s soon to be ‘forgiven and forgotten about’ in this episode when all that matters is that Gwen is safe again. Or so they think! (Insert Michelle future do do’ here).
I get the snake symbolism, and snakes seem to be a favourite weapon of Morgana’s. However, for variety, or maybe a bit more of a logical explanation to why the knights are so scared and can’t fight them off, or just… ride away, the snake nests could have been a swarm of magical wasps instead. Coming out of the ground, stinging them up and giving them hallucinations like Tracker Jackers from Hunger games!
On the subtitles on the boxset, Elyan shouts “Look to the queen”, but I read different subtitles (either on re-run or Netflix) where instead he says “They’re after the queen”. I hear the former, albeit very faintly. But why would the non-dvd subtitles think to put down the latter? Does it seem obvious to Elyan that the snakes are trying to attack Gwen for some reason? Like you guys said, it wasn’t like the two small snakes raced in Gwen’s direction. What I think Elyan meant was ‘look to the Queen, her safety is the main priority!’
Love the camera transitions and dark shadows working together as we see the knights bringing Leon and Percival through the corridors, beautiful work!
I kinda get why Arthur says ‘we ride at dawn’ not ‘within the hour’. He may have a sleepless night, but whether or not he intended to leave alone, with just Gwaine and Elyan, or with a giant search party, he does not yet know how bad the danger is or the likeliness Gwen shall return during the night. They were just attacked by snakes, Merlin has yet to tell him that Morgana is evidently involved. If Merlin told him this in their scene and then Arthur THEN jumped into action and went ‘sod the night, we leave now’ then it might work. Also where’s IS Mordred, again the writers forgets he’s part of the show as an eager knight and has a big part to play in the story still…
That knight’s handshake! Lovely. Arthur doesn’t give Merlin an odd look or too long a hesitation. He takes his arm and smiles! (hear me fan-scream internally) This is the best scene to show a non-watcher and totally confuse them, coz it appears as if Merlin is Arthur’s advisor, not servant.
In my notes I put: Moody Arthur is the most attractive Arthur lol.
Are the screams only in Gwen’s head? If the mandrakes bring out a person’s fears, then what are the screams, whose are they? Are they the screams of the ghosts of other victims of the tower? They can’t be the mandrakes screaming, only those with magic can hear them! One mandrake root made Uther nearly completely lose it (then again he had more demons), why the over-kill in gooey Mandrake roots and don’t they need the tears of the specific person to work on them? Too many questions 😠
I can’t imagine that Morgana went through the forest like the knights did. Not unless she had the magnificent power to part the tree like the red sea, which we know she doesn’t. We see Morgana and Gwen in the nice woods, then in the desert (hope I spelt it right lol), conveniently having skipped the awkward travel through the impenetrable forest, which we can only assume Morgana knows the ins and outs of how to beat (for some reason). SPOILERS: We will see later that Morgana also has the ‘minds eye’ thing…
“Everything in the tower’s shadow was dead, there was children screaming, the rain fell as blood.” Well, best two outta three I guess. This is why the age rating damages the episode, and why the writers decided to raise the danger and visual horror only in character dialogue, I dunno. Because even as a child watching this ep, I expected more spooks. I expected more challenges, I expected the blood rain! Yet again, I get why. They couldn’t get away with a bloody wound, let alone watery red sprinklers. “The forest had claws, and then an empty plain except for a pillar so dark it could swallow the sun.” Again so so poetic and cool sounding but if you’ve not got the high age rating, don’t say stuff you can’t create.
In this case, I like Gwaine’s line. This isn’t him just becoming the comic relief by the writing, this is the Gwaine we know who’s just trying to, like Ruth says, defuse the tension for his friends, OR he believes their dreams, that they are headed for a really horrible place, and is covering his anxiety with humour. Yet I kind of disagree that his tone is off, to me, it resonates with Gwaine’ past style of deadpanning it (s3 finale), only this time he’s too tired to show the smile. THEY know how his sense of humour works, so they don’t take it as Gwaine coming off as insensitive. But it’s such a shame he’s still given barely any meaningful character dialogue like before.
Ruth, I’ll tell ya why Leon sounds like he doesn’t know what the lazily named ‘dark tower’ is, it’s because until now, it didn’t exist in this world’s geography or lore 😉
I want the forest to legit have claws and be so super dense they can barely see daylight! I imagine it as the forest the dwarfs walk through in the Hobbit, where they lose the path and then the forest plays tricks and disorientates them. The only frustrating thing about the forest at first glance is that the knights are having a hard time getting through it quickly with all their armour on. Gwaine getting angry quickly is in canon, to me it works. I like that it seems they are moving backwards. THAT’S what’s odd about the forest’s name though. Once you’re in, you’re in. It’s penetrable, just not supposedly achievable to ever get out the other end. You would die in there. Where’s all the skeletons of previously trapped victims hanging in the trees? Oh.. yeah right, kids show.
If we saw more personality from Gwen this season, I could totally believe why her fears would be that she is not doing a good job as queen, but I have always hated how the visions of her friends just laugh at her and she is won over in the end to Morgana saying ‘the others hate you.’ Gwen, blue mandrake Merlin roared in your face, don’t think he would have actually done that, do you??
I thought the same as Michele. The visions could have been more like the hijacking Peeta goes through in hunger games. It is hallucinogenic poison mixed with fear stimula to rewrite his memories that leaves him as a weapon and attacks who is now a threat to him. Even years later, Peeta never properly recovers, he needs to have someone constantly clarify what’s real and what’s not. This is what I’m guessing the show vaguely does with Gwen, though it’s not clear how the whole thing works. The vision people Gwen sees could have talked more, or acted like they were playing out memories, only this time the characters were treating her horribly. I know, I know, family show. Nothing too traumatizing for our Gwen or our kids. But this is the only thing that makes suddenly siding with Morgana make sense. If only she still acted like Gwen, only her perspectives and morals have changed based on what she now believes are her real experiences with the others. After these events (and I mean after curing the brainwashing, not during the brainwashing), we can only expect the Gwen everyone knew to be changed forever. However (SPOILERS), Gwen in a few episodes is never gonna show any signs of psychological trauma, guilt, or PTSD.
Did Morgana cook or conjure this food herself? Or does she have Avoxes in the corners somewhere. No, I shall not stop with the hunger games references XD And does Gwen willingly walk back to the mandrake room, without a fight or attempt to escape?
I don’t like Queen Mab. There I said it. She’s random, she’s weird looking, she’s pointless, and a legend-y name to tick off the list. Only there to name drop Emrys again, and scare us with exposition and warning that Merlin again cannot prevent. She doesn’t use magic, and like the knights earlier, gives us a lot of shpeel about the tower being eviler than it actually turns out to be. Maybe if she was blue and related to the Sidhe, idk…
I actually wrote a rough fanfic in 2012 (forever lost) literally set in this desert scene. In it, the walk to the tower was so blisteringly hot, others had tried to get into the tower’s shadow for shade, only to get flash heated to death as a trick. Hence Leon’s words “everything in its shadow was dead”, a warning to stay IN the sun and suffer the walk, and wait til the shadow gradually moved round throughout the day to reach the tower.
I wish the tower had some sort of time magic field. Like Mab said, the tower is like a nightmare, so it should work like a nightmare. Where for Gwen, it feels like she’s been in the room for so long, it’s logical that she would in the end feel the others had abandoned her, fueling her fears. And while the others are in the tower, they could get separated and a few seconds for the group ends up being hours to days for the separated knight… Like the tricks the TARDIS played on Amy and Rory. It would give a good explanation to why Elyan went through a door and the others were not long behind him, then in the arrow room, suddenly Elyan is way ahead. He had been in the room for longer. Hey, I just want people to suffer okay 😅
I will give it to Angel, she sure can play deranged and disturbed very well!
Haha poor Percival is always the one to get shot by arrows, his thighs must look like pin-cushions!
So I’m guessing the journey back was a total breeze. What with having to go back through 3 days of the desert, forest, and woods, all in grief. Totally uneventful!? Also, when did Morgana leave? This again reminds me of hunger games. When they think they rescued Peeta, they are suspicious because they were allowed to leave too easily. Albeit they lost Elyan, the knights leave without any fight, don’t run into Morgana or her dragon and are allowed to just take Gwen home. And no-one thinks it’s odd. Of course, for now Gwen can cover up her distant behaviour with shock…
All in all, this episode confuses and frustrates me, and all I can fill up on are headcanons and rewrites and scarier scenes that would never fly with the air time lol. I personally feel this episode and the next few episodes to follow are pointless to the main plot and should have been used to develop Mordred instead, but since they WERE made, timing and the family rating hurt it massively. I agree, it needed to be a two-parter to fit a proper narrative in and use all the imagery they could get away with. We neither got any further explanation on the ‘pit’ story, nor got a proper ‘catch-up’ moment between Morgana and Gwen to show us the writers remembered what their bond was like before Morgana went evil.
I don’t think saying ‘he was a good father’ exclude the fact that (totally agree with you) Elyan and Tom didn’t get along and didn’t see eye to eye. It sounds to me like Elyan was a bit of a screw up wild child, and he’s only now grown up and become responsible, and yes, wouldn’t it be lovely to feel some of that here? Even just a simple line of ’I’m sorry he never saw how far we’ve both come’ because Gwen is queen and Elyan is a knight and they are both good and honourable people! Tom didn’t get to see that, and that’s tragic!
That knight’s handshake! Lovely. Arthur doesn’t give Merlin an odd look or too long a hesitation. He takes his arm and smiles! (hear me fan-scream internally) This is the best scene to show a non-watcher and totally confuse them, coz it appears as if Merlin is Arthur’s advisor, not servant. –
That’s true. He is his advisor though. So it’s not really untrue. I also loved the handshake. 🙂
Hello! First comment here, because when you mentioned panto villains and catboy!merlin I just had to share this: https://youtu.be/RSaNKmAxtxg
Notice the nose wiggles and eyeliner – very cute XD Also a cameo from Valiant at the end haha
P.S. I’ll hopefully come back next week with some cohernt thoughts*
Ok I really struggled with Gwen’s arc. I love the idea of the psychological torture but by the end I was thinking “she’s been here about three days though, right? Stockholm syndrome doesn’t set in that quickly, right?” And as usual, I wish they’d have Gwen try to escape or do something – I don’t care how or why she fails, so long as she tries once and as an audience we know for sure it’s impossible before she gives up.
I despite Gaius’ lines at the end. It makes no sense. If the point is to set up for the Evil!Gwen reveal, then why can’t he say “Gwen is safe, Elyan would be glad that his death was in saving her” or something, instead of dismissing both Merlin’s feelings of grief for his friend and our feelings about a well-loved character dying?
Including Queen Mab pissed me off because she’s too well-established a character in folklore to just suddenly drop in and use merely as a plot device. The costuming was cool but she didn’t strike me as much of a queen. It didn’t feel like Merlin was meeting the literal queen of the fae, it felt like yet another moment for the writers to go “heyheyheyhey it’s a name you recognise!! Queen Mab, geddit?!” with no purpose beyond that moment.
Anyway, some good things. I always love it when Merlin gets spidey senses. I love that we have a return to season 1’s fairytale vibes. I’m really glad we got to see the knights interacting as friends and supporting each other and Gwen.
despise** Gaius’s lines. Not “despite”. Why do I only notice typos the day after.
Also, to add to my general complaining about an episode I actually didn’t mind that much: I’d entirely forgotten that this was Elyan’s death episode. I could have sworn I remembered him in the final episodes, actually, but perhaps that was just wishful thinking – or the characterisation of the knights has gone so downhill that they’re basically interchangeable… aside from Leon getting to be the Sensible One and Gwaine getting to be the Not Sensible One. Hm.
I automatically read it as ‘despise’ but yes, I do the exact same thing! I hit ‘send’ and IMMEDIATELY notice typos!! Hahaha
And yes! Thank you! I was almost convinced (and may have even said it on air at some point?) that Elyan does stuff in the finale… I could have sworn he does in Part I, to show us that things are dire and people will die… shows what I know lol
it felt like yet another moment for the writers to go “heyheyheyhey it’s a name you recognise!! Queen Mab, geddit?!” with no purpose beyond that moment. –
Oh, undoubtedly! In my own comment, I also wanted to call out the throwaway comment about ‘The place from where we saw the Dolorous Place.” Now the Dolorous Place is an established magical castle/ location in Arthurian literature and has its own stories and lore attached. I have NO idea why Arthur suddenly refers to the Dark Tower as the Dolorous Place or how it is meant to link to its literary counterpart. It is literally a throwaway comment that comes from nowhere and is never mentioned again. Really odd and, yeah, like you say, it’s basically just providing signposts of Arthurian literature that look flashy but ultimately lead nowhere. 🙁
Sorry for drowning you in tragedy last week 😀 This time, it’s just scary (good for October I guess) 😉
So, here we are, the Magical Stockholm Syndrome episode, a.k.a. “is this still a family show?” episode, or, the scariest episode in the whole of Merlin (for me)
I was a bit surprised that this episode had no emotional impact for you – for me, while I did see all the imperfections in how the Gwen scenes were cut (and you’re right, that Elyan ‘evil laugh’ is straight from early Hollywood or something), the whole situation was super scary for me. I know it’s probably mostly a “me” thing – I tend to get easily triggered by brainwashing / hypnosis / mind manipulation done in films and TV.
I agree about the snakes 😀 They look really not like a threat they are made to be.
I LOVED Queen Mab and I wished we got more of her than 20 seconds (I counted). That whole exchange is great, and I really like the chaotic neutral / fey vibe. I always find it refreshing when there are characters that are neither good nor evil. Also, I really like the “Dark Tower is not a real place” as a concept. It sounds really fairy tale-y (like when you enter a forest and you unknowingly cross the boundary to the fairyland, and you’re still in a place of sorts, but it’s more like a place parallel to the real world, not a part of it). I agree they probably should have done more with that.
Gwen’s line “Morgana enchanted it [the sword] to protect me” struck me this time around when I was rewatching, but I think it actually makes sense for brainwashed!Gwen to say it. She already believes that Morgana is the only true friend, so it makes sense for her to think that this twisted thing is some kind of protection. I also don’t think that brainwashed!Gwen hates Elyan, at least, she doesn’t seem to. It feels that, perhaps, her bond with her brother is too deep and old for Morgana to uproot entirely. I don’t know if it’s the intention of the writers or if I’m making a headcanon here, but that’s how it reads to me (probably that’s also why Elyan conveniently dies in this episode – it would have been interesting to see if Gwen would falter in her newfound evil-ness if Elyan was still around next episode). And it might seem untidy story-wise, but I think it works for me. Because this time, Morgana’s “game”, though still aided by magic, was very much psychological, and when it comes to psychology, there’s no switch between “good” and “evil” that you can just flip to change a person. It’s believable that some traces of “old Gwen” would still be there.
Interesting soundtrack choices this episode! The Sidhe / Lake of Avalon theme is playing with Queen Mab, which makes sense, given she’s probably somehow connected to them as being a fairy. But, more interestingly, in all the scenes where Morgana dines with Gwen / plays nice to her in order to manipulate her, we get the intro to The Witch’s Aria from The Dragon’s Call (that weird sound which I can’t quite place – it sounds like a crossover between a theremin and Mongolian jaw harp, ohmygod, somebody help me, why do I keep obsessing over this)! It’s curious. Is it implying that Morgana is now like Mary Collins, enchanting Gwen with her words just as she enchanted everyone with her song? There is definitely an element of dulling the senses in both cases. And they both go for similar esthetic choices: cobwebs. Cobwebs are all the witch fad right now. It’s interesting that that’s the connection that’s drawn.
“you’re still in a place of sorts, but it’s more like a place parallel to the real world, not a part of it”
I like the sound of that too, like if they crossed the threshold of the forest, they enter a land literally oozing of pure magic like an open wound in the earth, full of tricks and traps and stuff of nightmares! A land infected, like the perilous lands, which is kinda what it resembles. If only the show had the time and effects to back it up…
Gwen’s feelings for her brother in the scene are a little odd to interpret. At this point this might have been the ultimate last trigger Morgana used to break Gwen. Otherwise between Gwen saying ‘I’d rather stay her and die’ and the sword scene, we don’t see what Morgana does differently to push her over the edge, unless the sword bit IS that. Morgana might have planted triggers like telling her the sword is protecting her, but if Arthur or Elyan come to ‘rescue’ her and die then it’s their fault, not Morgana’s. How else would Gwen possibly be won over by Morgana, if it weren’t for her magic sword, Elyan wouldn’t have died. I agree she must have still felt for her brother, and didn’t let on she was nearly on Morgana’s side, she might have otherwise said something like “Morgana’s enchanted this sword to protect me. Don’t fight the sword, let Morgana take me away from you.” Testing Elyan’s answer to what she saw in the mandrake room.
or, the scariest episode in the whole of Merlin (for me) –
You are definitely NOT alone. Same here.
Also, I really like the “Dark Tower is not a real place” as a concept. It sounds really fairy tale-y (like when you enter a forest and you unknowingly cross the boundary to the fairyland, and you’re still in a place of sorts, but it’s more like a place parallel to the real world, not a part of it). –
I really like this idea too – I just wish they had given us just a smidgeon more so we could understand what is meant by it. Are the dangers of the place created by one’s own mind? Will you start doubting yourself in the Tower, making it a place where your internal doubts and conflicts suddenly become reality and you have to face them? Is it, like you say, a crossing into the faery world, like the through the Gates of Avalon or across the Bridge into the Perilous Lands? I think lots of these interpretations just work and it wouldn’t even be a problem to allow different interpretations. But the one line from Mab is just not enough to lead anywhere. Sad. Also, all this begs the question: how is Morgana impervious to the dangers of the Tower? Maybe because she is already deranged and it only works on healthy minds? Maybe because SPOILER she has already lived through her actual nightmare in the last two years so nothing the Tower can do would have even close to as much effect on her?
I also don’t think that brainwashed!Gwen hates Elyan, at least, she doesn’t seem to. –
I agree. I also think that Elyan’s death in some way completed Morgana’s spell, like it was an event that could Gwen completely against Arthur because, somehow, she blamed him for the death of her brother? Again, nothing is actually textualised but I am headcannoning. I guess if Morgause did use the same spell on Morgana, her almost murder by Merlin could have equally been the completion of that spell?
It’s interesting that that’s the connection that’s drawn. –
I noticed the reference to the Witch’s Aria as well. I don’t quite know what it means or why it was done but I do like that we haven’t forgotten the first episode yet and are harking back to it. I feel nostalgic hearing it.
11th October 2021 @ 1:50 am
I have been waiting for this episode because we finally get some focus on Gwen and Morgana. I have thoughts, but I will try to keep it short. I’m really only focusing on these two.
I think this show did itself a great disservice by not giving these two a decent storyline for the characters themselves, but also one that could have mirrored Merlin and Arthur in some way to give more depth to everyone’s story. This really should have been a Gwen and Morgana episode. I mean if Gaius got an entire episode on his rando relationship, these two should have one about theirs. I mean, there is no reckoning of their years together. I wanted that as a viewer. Yet, the show does not do that. It also sucks that is the one episode where we get a focus on Gwen and Morgana and get the team dynamic from the knights. As you mentioned in the podcast, it should have been one or the other. The cut back and forth takes away from both situations, but I rather see Gwen and Morgana since we’ve only had snippets of them interacting since season 3.
Plus, I know many may not agree, but this show always gave me the impression that Morgana had an obsession of some sort for Gwen. It may have been a jealous of her time and attention with their friendship or something more. And I use that lens when watching this episode. I think back to the finale of season 3 when Morgana asked Gwen to join her in this “new” Camelot when she did not have to. Morgana had Morguese, and she was mighty mad when Gwen betrayed her. And while the Lancelot storyline in s4 was really bad writing, I also think it was Morgana just being petty and targeting Gwen because she was mad at her (for choosing Arthur). Like why not target Arthur since he’s the one with your crown? And her dreaming of Gwen as queen was also an interesting angle. Why not focus on Arthur becoming king? And in season four when she ripped Gwen’s wedding band necklace off with a lot of gusto and anger. I know it would have given Gwen away as a deer, but… Not saying that means anything, and could be just bad writing, but it’s just an interesting pattern to me.
I think one thing missing in this episode was Merlin and Gwen’s friendship. It seemed as if Merlin was doing this to help Arthur get Gwen back, and not so much that they were friends at one time. I miss their friendship.
Lastly, did Morgana cook the chicken herself? And why didn’t she clear off all the cobwebs off the table, especially with the candles around? And does she own a brush? Her hair is getting wilder. Is this supposed to indicate her mental state as we continue through these last episodes?
11th October 2021 @ 9:52 pm
I mean, there is no reckoning of their years together. –
I know. I commented further down how all other relationships had to pale and cease to exist in order for them to foreground Merlin and Arthur’s relationship. I don’t know why they thought they had to. I personally think it would still leave Arthur and Merlin as special to each other, especially when put in comparison and contrast with others. Throughout the show, I wished we had more of a sense that Morgana and Gwen used to be friends and, like you pointed out, we get snippets here and there. But it’s not enough and this episode could have been really something but isn’t.
10th October 2021 @ 11:20 pm
Of all the episodes of Merlin, I always thought this was the most downright scary. The first time I watched this (and after the trauma that was The Disir), I actually seriously considered not finishing the series. I also think the nature of the Mandrake scenes are the reason we cut away from them so swiftly as they are really quite frightening and not really suitable for a family show. That’s why they might have chosen not to linger on them.
I love how the first scene with Elyan and Gwen at their father’s grace harks back to the intimacy and sibling relationship they had in ‘Castle of Fyrien’. And it equally makes me furious: such a short scene, two lines of dialogue, that does so much. Why couldn’t we have had this all the way through? And later on, Elyan says that Gwen raised him – why don’t we know more of this? I think the problem with Elyan’s death, why it doesn’t really have enough of an impact here, is that his identity as a knight was always as ‘The knight that is Gwen’s brother’ – but they forgot that, stripping him of any recognisable and memorable character at all. (For one episode, he was the knight who was possessed by a druid child but that was basically forgotten after the end of the credits.) They didn’t make us care about him and this one episode just isn’t enough for us to get there emotionally. They do try to get us there, mostly through the music, actually. When Elyan dies in the Dark Tower, we play the soundtrack of Merlin’s father dying and then neatly transition into Freya’s funeral theme for Elyan’s funeral. So, they are pulling out all the stops but we just had too little of Elyan throughout the series and the music now just feels like they realised and really tried to force the emotional impact anyway.
There is a thing I have noticed that Katie does every time after Morgana casts a spell: she watches the spell take effect for a moment and then smiles in triumph and, although it could just be evil smirking, if it is instead a sort of continuing wonder and gladness that Morgana has this ability and it obeys her, I think it’s really nice. And Katie uses it consistently perhaps commenting both on how far Morgana’s magic has progressed and in how far she herself is still in awe of her abilities and celebrates using them after having to hide for so long.
I was going to complain that the knights didn’t look for Gwen after they were attacked by the snakes. But I do think that they saw her ride away and assumed that she had made it back to the castle safely and ahead of them. However, that doesn’t bode well for their tracking skills – although they might have been too distracted by Percival and Leon to look out for traces of Gwen’s horse.
I don’t know if anyone has seen those videos but Eoin Macken and Tom Hopper shot this film called Cold and then invited a bunch of their Merlin co-stars to be part of a panel at ‘Cold Con’. Colin was there and someone asked a question about the most difficult scene or something. And then quite a few of them talked about this scene in episode 6 which had such ridiculous dialogue that none of them, not even Colin, could keep a straight face. Alex Vlahos, who was also there, said that he couldn’t remember and the others told him that he wasn’t in the scene. I almost think it must have been the one what with Percival and Leon’s odd dream and the apple pie and cheese. It would certainly fit all the criteria. So, now, each time I watch it, I try to focus on people in the background supressing their laughter because apparently they couldn’t get a single shot where someone wasn’t laughing. (If someone has another contender for the scene, please let me know.) But really, whatever the scene, their little anecdote also tells me that we certainly aren’t the only ones who picked up on the awfulness of some of the writing. I can imagine them sitting over a new script, trying to decide whether to groan with frustration or laugh. And then groan anyway because they somehow had to breathe life and meaning and emotional engagement into such a scene.
When Arthur tells his knights that he will go on to the Dark Tower alone, we have got a bit of an echo of the Round Table where each knight pledges their loyalty to Gwen as they did to Arthur back then. They even all stand in a bit of a circle. It’s kind of nice seeing especially considering where things will lead in the future – of course, that’d be assuming this was done intentionally. I also like that Merlin was given a choice.
I am not really sure what kind of visions the Mandrakes are supposed to cause. Uther seemed to see all those that represented his guilt. But Gwen just sees those she loves torment her and turn against her, sees them out of character. So do they show fears rather than guilt? That would mean that Uther’s greatest fear was his guilt, to face it, admit to it, deal with it – which of course would tie in well with the Purge he started to lay the blame elsewhere.
How does Morgana get access to all these places? Ismere, the Dark Tower? Is there some sort of ‘real estate rentals for evil sorcerers’ that she keeps going back to if different places don’t work out? And once again, why exactly does she abandon the Dark Tower as her abode at the end of this episode?
The Queen Mab scene is excellent and so out there. I love how we suddenly go extremely faery tale and touch upon the realm of myth that we are familiar with from other sources. Also, I can’t help thinking of Romeo and Juliet and Mercutio’s speech about Queen Mab deceiving people in their dreams. Since dreams and being led by them into treacherous places is one of the elements of this story, I wonder if Queen Mab collaborated with Morgana to provide the dreams. Maybe not because she is bad or good, just because she wanted to.
I love this new bit of magic Merlin is able to perform, to see the path ahead. As a knight, I would, however, wonder why he didn’t speak up about getting everyone to the Tower the night before but waited until the second day. It’s cool the way Colin says the line, “Trust me just this once.” It sounds like he says, “I know the excuse about the sea smell is ridiculous. I can’t tell you the real reason but there is one and please trust me.”
Just also wanted to call out Angel Coulby for basically spending an episode alone in a set with some hanging rubber mandrakes, some creepy lighting and having to act scared and crying. The sad part of course is that when fake Arthur appears to Gwen and speaks to her so gently at first, I get much more genuine relationship between a married couple than I have got so far from both of them all season. ☹
I had a theory: the way that Gwen goes out to meet Morgana in the woods and her complete and unquestioning conversion to Morgana’s side is so reminiscent of Morgana that I wonder whether Morgause also enchanted her in a similar way. Obviously, this begs many questions: what has happened to the spell now that Morgause is dead? Did her death cement the enchantment forever? Is Morgana becoming so twisted and ludicrous in her pursuit because she no longer has her ‘enchantress’ to guide her?
11th October 2021 @ 11:40 am
–But I do think that they saw her ride away and assumed that she had made it back to the castle safely and ahead of them. —
thanks for that! genuinly hadn’t occured to me that of course when they tell her to ride away, they expect her to ride back to camelot, and so they bring the wounded back, and then realise she’s not there… that makes a LOT of sense, so yeah, thank you!! 🙂
10th October 2021 @ 8:50 pm
I like how Morgana is reusing an old trick of Morgause’s – I feel it really reads in Katie’s performance that Morgana constantly dwells on and can’t let go of the past. She’s melancholy and contemplative in this episode, perhaps remembering her sister and that she is alone.
Also, I don’t know much about horse riding, but if Gwen was knocked from her saddle with enough force to break the straps, why is her saddle still on the horse? Did Morgana really tie up Gwen’s horse and go to all the trouble of neatly arranging the saddle as a big “Haha F U I had plenty of time to do this because you suck” to Arthur?
I understand that Tony Head probably wouldn’t have been able to come back as a glowing ghost-dude AGAIN. Still, it would have been interesting for Gwen to see hallucinations of Uther after all the trauma he’d caused her. Perhaps they decided to ease up after the first couple of seasons, but I don’t understand why they didn’t actually go scarier with the trauma in this episode. In Season 3, I believe, Uther saw his dead wife begging him for mercy at the bottom of a well and visions of the innocent magical children he had had cruelly drowned. Gaius actually talked about it! And in Season 1, Edwin Muerden talked about throwing himself onto the pyre to desperately try to save his parents from the flames. I don’t really think you can get much darker than that. I get that this is maybe-sort-of supposed to be the Golden Age of Camelot, but I wish they would have tried to incorporate more of that earlier horror in there.
This episode has come full circle for Morgana’s relationships in a way. I’m not sure if anyone has discussed this before, but Morgana’s character arc – what little of one there is – is a heartbreaking example of self-fulfilling prophecy in psychology. Here’s a link if you want to read more about it: https://www.britannica.com/topic/self-fulfilling-prophecy
Morgana’s self-fulfilling prophecy started when Uther taught Morgana that magic is evil and that sorcerers are corrupt, even evil people. He reinforced this by executing anyone even associated with magic like criminals. As a result, Morgana feared her own powers and thought that her family would at the very least hate her, if not burn her at the stake. She learned to cope by developing hatred for her father and everything he held dear, ultimately self-sabotaging her most valuable relationships and feeding the stereotype that all sorcerers are evil. Morgana became the very monster Uther had taught her to fear. Now, anytime anyone tries to stop her destructive behavior, Morgana interprets the reaction through the belief that everyone in Camelot hates her because of her magic, placing the blame squarely at their feet and leaving none for herself. By this episode, Morgana has no one left – in one way or another, she has played a role in the loss of every significant relationship she had. It’s unbearably tragic that the initial belief that family and friends would never accept her has led Morgana to self-sabotage to the point that she must now resort to brainwashing her once closest friend to have anything even remotely resembling love and acceptance.
Sidenote: At the funeral, Merlin is wearing blue on blue because he’s blue.
11th October 2021 @ 11:53 am
— if Gwen was knocked from her saddle with enough force to break the straps, why is her saddle still on the horse? —
lol yeah, that… this weeks episode, the entire plot hinges on arthur’s saddle having been restitched so it would break. yet, when he falls from the horse, the saddle stays on… I totally get that it’s one thing to have a stunt that involved a rider falling from a hrose (in a controlled manner), and a completely different thing to rig a saddle to break and a rider to fall at the same time (really not a controlled manner). and trying to rig saddle to break, to make it controlled, and to then have a rider fall in the safest way possible… it’s all just a bit much. but if you’re making entire plot lines rely on it, then it would be better to not show us, and just tell us instead, so we don’t have to ask these questions…
I’ve kept your self fulfilling prophecy write in for the season 5 round up, as I think that will be super interesting to discuss across all of the season.. thank you!
11th October 2021 @ 9:48 pm
Thanks for explaining the self-fulfilling prophecy with regards to Morgana. That’s really quite accurate. And I think she’s not the only person trapped in such a cycle. I’m looking forward to Michelle and Ruth discussing this in the round-up.
10th October 2021 @ 11:58 am
Evil Gwen: my least favourite storyline! The ‘torture’ could have delved into Gwen’s actual insecurities. Like the one about not having an heir. Since childlessness was a crucial part of Uther’s story why is there no mention of Arthur’s feelings of possibly being in the same situation? Maybe he’s pragmatic about it but this still causes Gwen distress -it could have been what the evil Arthur in the tower brings up. Each of the evil versions of her loved ones could have had an agenda rather than the flimsy laughs. And Gwen, in conversing with them, could have had some character development.
I’m sure we’re not meant to read into it, but I wish we didn’t have the slavery imagery in the desert scene.
MINOR SPOILER:
Especially because Gwen, a Woman of Colour, loses all agency due to this arc and it ends with her being rescued by a bunch of white men. And on top of that the first knight to go is the only POC. 😞
That aside, great visuals in that scene and this week’s cover art captures it beautifully. 😊 I loved Arthur’s frustrated moments and everyone’s navigational skills, magical or otherwise! I found it a bit annoying that Merlin kept mentioning the promise, making it less about Gwen and more about his loyalty to Arthur…I’m not a fan of Merlin becoming Arthur-centric. I wish he was the one saying ‘she’s our friend.’ Also Arthur’s ‘I can’t lose her again’ would have been more meaningful if everyone knew Morgana enchanted Gwen into the cheating.
Loved that Arthur and Gwen bit in the end. We only get a glimpse of Arthur but from the way he’s burrowing his face into her shoulder you can sense how much he’s relieved to have her back and won’t ever let go. Beautifully intimate without crossing the family rating!
10th October 2021 @ 9:51 pm
yes, yes, yes, and yes to all of those points!
-Since childlessness was a crucial part of Uther’s story why is there no mention of Arthur’s feelings of possibly being in the same situation?
I wonder if they didn’t compare Arthur’s lack of an heir to Uther’s because they couldn’t do a similar situation with Merlin? Balinor had an illegitimate child he didn’t know about, but as far as we know, Merlin hasn’t had the chance to do more than kiss a girl because the ones he likes are either evil or die, not to mention that his devotion to Arthur and destiny keeps him pretty busy. The plot has isolated Merlin so much that his development has stopped being an opposite mirror to Arthur’s. In this regard- that of the next generation – Merlin simply cannot be the other side of the coin.
10th October 2021 @ 11:23 pm
*Correction: I forgot about Sefa haha, so evil is a probably a poor word choice. Unfortunately antagonistic towards Merlin’s goals is more like it haha.
11th October 2021 @ 4:08 am
That’s a fabulous point…I can’t decide whether I’m upset that they didn’t even touch on the matter of an heir for Arthur and Gwen, or grateful that they didn’t do a sort of half hearted attempt…
11th October 2021 @ 11:12 am
totally with you on that! on one hand ‘how can this not be a hot button topic???’ on the other hand ‘oh god, can you imagine what they would have done with it…’ =/
11th October 2021 @ 9:40 pm
Especially because Gwen, a Woman of Colour, loses all agency due to this arc and it ends with her being rescued by a bunch of white men. And on top of that the first knight to go is the only POC. 😞 –
I know, this also, apart from anything else such as this shoddy choice of a storyline for Gwen, makes me uncomfortable.
I’m not a fan of Merlin becoming Arthur-centric. I wish he was the one saying ‘she’s our friend.’ Also Arthur’s ‘I can’t lose her again’ would have been more meaningful if everyone knew Morgana enchanted Gwen into the cheating. –
Me neither. I don’t know why they did it. But basically, so that Arthur and Merlin’s relationship could be central, Merlin had to forego any other minor relationship and those other characters lost their individuality. It’s a shame and, like you said, it wouldn’t have taken away from anything if Merlin had wanted to find Gwen because of their friendship. That’s caring for Arthur also and the audience is clever enough to understand that.
9th October 2021 @ 11:36 am
So happy with these discussions/podcasts – they’re really helping me come to terms with season 5 in all it’s imperfections!
This episode is not a favourite – although this last viewing brought me some joy in an unexpected way.
This time around, I was struck by how in her dastardly plan, Morgana created a situation where she gets to act with kindness and compassion, specifically towards Gwen.
I don’t think this is by coincidence. Morgana chose this role for herself – a role that demanded her to provide comfort for her former friend, and ultimately, create a relationship that echos the one she had with Morgause.
I’ve been waiting for a long time for the show to suggest Morgana has some subconscious conflict about the betrayal of her past life. Unless I’ve missed something from previous episodes, I haven’t seen it. So I’m claiming this as evidence! In the season opener, she sought to get a sense of connection to the past and friendship from Mordred, but was rejected. So she figured out a way of evil-ing that included hugs with her previous closest friend.
How sad it that!
10th October 2021 @ 6:30 pm
-I don’t think this is by coincidence. Morgana chose this role for herself – a role that demanded her to provide comfort for her former friend, and ultimately, create a relationship that echos the one she had with Morgause.
This whole episode I thought that Morgana must have been ruminating over the loss of her sister since Morgause was the one who taught her the mandrake spell, but it didn’t even occur to me that Morgana had gone this far. Looking back at Katie’s performance, I can see what you’re talking about. It’s small, but I think it’s there! 🙂
11th October 2021 @ 9:26 pm
I never really thought about what you both have brought up. But now it’s so obvious. I do like that we give this nod to ‘good’ Morgana. That person is still in there somewhere, wishing to help and protect. But Morgana is now so twisted that it can only find its outlet this way. And I also like that you both pointed out the echo of the relationship with Morgause. Morgana, like every person, still needs to be loved and valued, needs companionship. But she will only allow herself this if she remains the controller and manipulator in the relationship. Again, she has taken on the part the Morgause used to play with her which seems to confirm my own theory that perhaps, to get Morgana on her side, Morgause used an equal enchantment with her as Morgana does with Gwen. Only, no one loved Morgana enough or looked out for her to break the spell as SPOILER people will do for Gwen in future episodes.
Poor Morgana – and that’s the first time I have felt sorry for her in a long time.
8th October 2021 @ 5:16 am
I need to start out by saying that there is apparently a way to tell north and south using ivy according to the internet even if it doesn’t seem to work the way Arthur explains it. I had to look it up and now I know more about plants and directions than I ever wanted to.
This episode was alright, not the best but not bad. I don’t have any strong feelings beyond confusion about the timing of this episode. Mostly just why do this halfway through season 5? I know we’re doing this for 4 episodes and it’s such a weird choice for Gwen’s character especially at this point in the show. What could possibly be the point of this. I wonder if it would have worked better in season 4 if we replaced the Lancelot du lac nonsense with this.
I really wish they had done more with Gwen this season and even though it’s great that she’s getting to do stuff I hate that this is how they’re doing it.
I’m opposed to the general concept of this episode but I do like all the Gwen and Morgana stuff. I would have been fine with this just being the entire episode. We could spend 90% of our time with Morgana playing mind games and Gwen’s slow descent into the place she’s in at the end and I would still dislike the premise but enjoy the episode a lot more.
I really like what Angel Coulby is doing in the Mandrake room scenes but I really wish we didn’t see the ghosts or whatever those were. Just hearing the voices and seeing shadows would have been far more effective and the weirdly lit ghosts just took me out of it. This show can do the horror thing pretty well when it wants to and I wish they’d gone full horror.
I have a headcanon for how the whole Queen Mab stuff and impenetrable forest thing would really work well with the Perilous Lands and the Fisher King stuff. So he was a magical king wasn’t he? And as the world outside turned hostile against magic the magical creatures and stuff inside his realm basically made it impenetrable to anyone without magic as a defense mechanism. That could be why it’s so easily crossed with magic but not by anyone else. And why Arthur didn’t meet any obstacles on the way in eye of the phoenix because his challenge was getting the bracelet to the tower.
I actually like the knights this episode and I wish we had this for the entirety of season 4. Also a very small thing but I find it really funny when Arthur tries to frame letting their king go off into a dangerous situation to rescue their queen as a choice because it is literally their job! What are they going to do say no?? I really love the sentiment but it’s always funny to me.
Everyone has already talked about the weirdness surrounding funeral rites so I’m not going to add to that. But if this is a traditional funeral for knights then I find the idea of Merlin giving Freya and shade Lancelot a proper knight’s funeral really sweet and it kind of accidentally ties into the whole Merlin is a knight of magic and holding Gilli to a knight’s standards and all that.
I wish we knew Elyan better but that can’t be helped at this point. I was expecting his death to be a bigger deal but it just wasn’t. I really like his funeral though so that’s something I guess.
I love Morgana and her Disney villian vibe so much. I don’t even care about logic anymore. I’m just going to enjoy watching Katie McGrath evilly eat fruits and carry out nonsensical plans for the rest of the show.
I have absolutely no faith in their ability to give me a good Gwen story anymore but I’m looking forward to seeing Angel Coulby’s version of evil Gwen and hoping that we atleast have fun with that.
I would like to conclude this long rambling comment by mentioning that I really love the art for this episode! And am looking forward to next week!
10th October 2021 @ 3:12 pm
So glad you like the art!
And I really like your head canon about magic and magical beings basically hiding themselves away, because the world sucks and has become a hostile place for them!
11th October 2021 @ 8:59 pm
it’s such a weird choice for Gwen’s character especially at this point in the show. What could possibly be the point of this. –
I think it’s honestly because they couldn’t figure out what to do with Gwen (a woman) after she had been married. It is so odd and I wish it didn’t comment on the writers and producers quite so much. But it does, doesn’t it?
Everyone has already talked about the weirdness surrounding funeral rites so I’m not going to add to that. But if this is a traditional funeral for knights then I find the idea of Merlin giving Freya and shade Lancelot a proper knight’s funeral really sweet and it kind of accidentally ties into the whole Merlin is a knight of magic and holding Gilli to a knight’s standards and all that. –
I like the link you made here. Yes, I’d almost forgotten that we declared Merlin the Knight for Magic and that it was the Fisher King episode (which is a bit of a companion to this one) where we did so.
7th October 2021 @ 9:46 pm
I was looking forward to hearing you talk about this episode, and I was not disappointed (not that I ever am :D)
This episode is one of my favourites in the season, but that doesn’t speak much about season 5 as a whole haha. It’s another episode where I’m more a fan of the potential and ‘what ifs’ version of it, rather than the finished result itself. I’ve enjoyed fanfiction set in this episode much more, there are some crazy talented writers out there who reimagined and wrote it better. Maybe it suffers for the same reason as many plots do in the show, because of the age rating.
So right off the bat, there’s Gwen’s and Elyan’s relationship. We’ve seen nothing of it until now, not really. Arthur’s and Elyan’s relationship, we’ve seen nothing of it, nothing that stands out. At least the show is consistent in its theme of making two characters suddenly very close only in the same episode one of them is gonna die in.. Plus, I know this show doesn’t really establish a strong castle hierarchy, but being brother to the queen of Camelot and thus brother-in-law to the king must give Elyan a higher ranking in the knights than he is… or is this where the equality thing comes in? Because Leon is still Captain, right?
I don’t get Tom’s grave. Where is it, why is it here, why does it look like that? Was it made when he was first buried there, did it exist before as Gwen’s mother’s grave? Gwen’s a queen now, her parents, no matter only being peasants, need a bit better a grave than this. Until you guys mentioned it, I kept forgetting the circumstances around Tom’s death. Yes, he was accused and executed for conspiring to commit treason via magic rebels. We saw his body get carted away. Did Gwen have to pay to get his body back? Now he has a sort of grave because he’s been pardoned by Arthur? Has every person’s funeral since Arthur’s coronation been a viking funeral? If the show clearly established that Camelot’s burial rights were different from other lands or people, it would be less confusing. They don’t even have to bring religion into it. Camelot=prefer to bury their dead, bodies and all. Magic people=prefer to set the bodies on fire on lakes to return their essence to the land. Simple. “This is a bizarre a-religious world where religion plays a huge role.” You said it, Ruth!
“He was a good father” Weeeell that screws up my headcanon that Elyan and Tom never got along which is why he ran off and never got in touch again. Of course, it’s nice that Elyan may be the type to ‘never speak ill of the dead’ especially in front of his sister who adores their father, but I would have loved a little more context from Elyan about his life. Ya know…. Before he dies soon. “We didn’t see eye to eye and I regret not seeing him in his last years, but he was a good father to have raised you, Gwen.” Something like that. He wasn’t even there for the burial, he could say something meaningful and personalized now.
I love the conversation between the knights and Gwen. Why couldn’t there have been scenes like this everywhere in this season? I actually remember when I first watched this episode years ago, I thought for a moment this conversation about ‘who’s in love’ was hinting that Elyan had a secret girl, and when he dies, he leaves her and a possible babby behind that Gwen and Arthur would later discover and have to support. Don’t know why I ever thought that, active imagination obviously haha.
“Arthur never tells me anything.” And here we are, evidence that poor Gwen and Arthur’s relationship is a shadow of what it was. This is why I have such a strong headcanon in my mind as I mentioned in other episodes that Arthur and Gwen are going through a rough patch that’s lasted since before the season started, and it’s soon to be ‘forgiven and forgotten about’ in this episode when all that matters is that Gwen is safe again. Or so they think! (Insert Michelle future do do’ here).
I get the snake symbolism, and snakes seem to be a favourite weapon of Morgana’s. However, for variety, or maybe a bit more of a logical explanation to why the knights are so scared and can’t fight them off, or just… ride away, the snake nests could have been a swarm of magical wasps instead. Coming out of the ground, stinging them up and giving them hallucinations like Tracker Jackers from Hunger games!
On the subtitles on the boxset, Elyan shouts “Look to the queen”, but I read different subtitles (either on re-run or Netflix) where instead he says “They’re after the queen”. I hear the former, albeit very faintly. But why would the non-dvd subtitles think to put down the latter? Does it seem obvious to Elyan that the snakes are trying to attack Gwen for some reason? Like you guys said, it wasn’t like the two small snakes raced in Gwen’s direction. What I think Elyan meant was ‘look to the Queen, her safety is the main priority!’
Love the camera transitions and dark shadows working together as we see the knights bringing Leon and Percival through the corridors, beautiful work!
I kinda get why Arthur says ‘we ride at dawn’ not ‘within the hour’. He may have a sleepless night, but whether or not he intended to leave alone, with just Gwaine and Elyan, or with a giant search party, he does not yet know how bad the danger is or the likeliness Gwen shall return during the night. They were just attacked by snakes, Merlin has yet to tell him that Morgana is evidently involved. If Merlin told him this in their scene and then Arthur THEN jumped into action and went ‘sod the night, we leave now’ then it might work. Also where’s IS Mordred, again the writers forgets he’s part of the show as an eager knight and has a big part to play in the story still…
That knight’s handshake! Lovely. Arthur doesn’t give Merlin an odd look or too long a hesitation. He takes his arm and smiles! (hear me fan-scream internally) This is the best scene to show a non-watcher and totally confuse them, coz it appears as if Merlin is Arthur’s advisor, not servant.
In my notes I put: Moody Arthur is the most attractive Arthur lol.
Are the screams only in Gwen’s head? If the mandrakes bring out a person’s fears, then what are the screams, whose are they? Are they the screams of the ghosts of other victims of the tower? They can’t be the mandrakes screaming, only those with magic can hear them! One mandrake root made Uther nearly completely lose it (then again he had more demons), why the over-kill in gooey Mandrake roots and don’t they need the tears of the specific person to work on them? Too many questions 😠
I can’t imagine that Morgana went through the forest like the knights did. Not unless she had the magnificent power to part the tree like the red sea, which we know she doesn’t. We see Morgana and Gwen in the nice woods, then in the desert (hope I spelt it right lol), conveniently having skipped the awkward travel through the impenetrable forest, which we can only assume Morgana knows the ins and outs of how to beat (for some reason). SPOILERS: We will see later that Morgana also has the ‘minds eye’ thing…
“Everything in the tower’s shadow was dead, there was children screaming, the rain fell as blood.” Well, best two outta three I guess. This is why the age rating damages the episode, and why the writers decided to raise the danger and visual horror only in character dialogue, I dunno. Because even as a child watching this ep, I expected more spooks. I expected more challenges, I expected the blood rain! Yet again, I get why. They couldn’t get away with a bloody wound, let alone watery red sprinklers. “The forest had claws, and then an empty plain except for a pillar so dark it could swallow the sun.” Again so so poetic and cool sounding but if you’ve not got the high age rating, don’t say stuff you can’t create.
In this case, I like Gwaine’s line. This isn’t him just becoming the comic relief by the writing, this is the Gwaine we know who’s just trying to, like Ruth says, defuse the tension for his friends, OR he believes their dreams, that they are headed for a really horrible place, and is covering his anxiety with humour. Yet I kind of disagree that his tone is off, to me, it resonates with Gwaine’ past style of deadpanning it (s3 finale), only this time he’s too tired to show the smile. THEY know how his sense of humour works, so they don’t take it as Gwaine coming off as insensitive. But it’s such a shame he’s still given barely any meaningful character dialogue like before.
Ruth, I’ll tell ya why Leon sounds like he doesn’t know what the lazily named ‘dark tower’ is, it’s because until now, it didn’t exist in this world’s geography or lore 😉
I want the forest to legit have claws and be so super dense they can barely see daylight! I imagine it as the forest the dwarfs walk through in the Hobbit, where they lose the path and then the forest plays tricks and disorientates them. The only frustrating thing about the forest at first glance is that the knights are having a hard time getting through it quickly with all their armour on. Gwaine getting angry quickly is in canon, to me it works. I like that it seems they are moving backwards. THAT’S what’s odd about the forest’s name though. Once you’re in, you’re in. It’s penetrable, just not supposedly achievable to ever get out the other end. You would die in there. Where’s all the skeletons of previously trapped victims hanging in the trees? Oh.. yeah right, kids show.
If we saw more personality from Gwen this season, I could totally believe why her fears would be that she is not doing a good job as queen, but I have always hated how the visions of her friends just laugh at her and she is won over in the end to Morgana saying ‘the others hate you.’ Gwen, blue mandrake Merlin roared in your face, don’t think he would have actually done that, do you??
I thought the same as Michele. The visions could have been more like the hijacking Peeta goes through in hunger games. It is hallucinogenic poison mixed with fear stimula to rewrite his memories that leaves him as a weapon and attacks who is now a threat to him. Even years later, Peeta never properly recovers, he needs to have someone constantly clarify what’s real and what’s not. This is what I’m guessing the show vaguely does with Gwen, though it’s not clear how the whole thing works. The vision people Gwen sees could have talked more, or acted like they were playing out memories, only this time the characters were treating her horribly. I know, I know, family show. Nothing too traumatizing for our Gwen or our kids. But this is the only thing that makes suddenly siding with Morgana make sense. If only she still acted like Gwen, only her perspectives and morals have changed based on what she now believes are her real experiences with the others. After these events (and I mean after curing the brainwashing, not during the brainwashing), we can only expect the Gwen everyone knew to be changed forever. However (SPOILERS), Gwen in a few episodes is never gonna show any signs of psychological trauma, guilt, or PTSD.
Did Morgana cook or conjure this food herself? Or does she have Avoxes in the corners somewhere. No, I shall not stop with the hunger games references XD And does Gwen willingly walk back to the mandrake room, without a fight or attempt to escape?
I don’t like Queen Mab. There I said it. She’s random, she’s weird looking, she’s pointless, and a legend-y name to tick off the list. Only there to name drop Emrys again, and scare us with exposition and warning that Merlin again cannot prevent. She doesn’t use magic, and like the knights earlier, gives us a lot of shpeel about the tower being eviler than it actually turns out to be. Maybe if she was blue and related to the Sidhe, idk…
I actually wrote a rough fanfic in 2012 (forever lost) literally set in this desert scene. In it, the walk to the tower was so blisteringly hot, others had tried to get into the tower’s shadow for shade, only to get flash heated to death as a trick. Hence Leon’s words “everything in its shadow was dead”, a warning to stay IN the sun and suffer the walk, and wait til the shadow gradually moved round throughout the day to reach the tower.
I wish the tower had some sort of time magic field. Like Mab said, the tower is like a nightmare, so it should work like a nightmare. Where for Gwen, it feels like she’s been in the room for so long, it’s logical that she would in the end feel the others had abandoned her, fueling her fears. And while the others are in the tower, they could get separated and a few seconds for the group ends up being hours to days for the separated knight… Like the tricks the TARDIS played on Amy and Rory. It would give a good explanation to why Elyan went through a door and the others were not long behind him, then in the arrow room, suddenly Elyan is way ahead. He had been in the room for longer. Hey, I just want people to suffer okay 😅
I will give it to Angel, she sure can play deranged and disturbed very well!
Haha poor Percival is always the one to get shot by arrows, his thighs must look like pin-cushions!
So I’m guessing the journey back was a total breeze. What with having to go back through 3 days of the desert, forest, and woods, all in grief. Totally uneventful!? Also, when did Morgana leave? This again reminds me of hunger games. When they think they rescued Peeta, they are suspicious because they were allowed to leave too easily. Albeit they lost Elyan, the knights leave without any fight, don’t run into Morgana or her dragon and are allowed to just take Gwen home. And no-one thinks it’s odd. Of course, for now Gwen can cover up her distant behaviour with shock…
All in all, this episode confuses and frustrates me, and all I can fill up on are headcanons and rewrites and scarier scenes that would never fly with the air time lol. I personally feel this episode and the next few episodes to follow are pointless to the main plot and should have been used to develop Mordred instead, but since they WERE made, timing and the family rating hurt it massively. I agree, it needed to be a two-parter to fit a proper narrative in and use all the imagery they could get away with. We neither got any further explanation on the ‘pit’ story, nor got a proper ‘catch-up’ moment between Morgana and Gwen to show us the writers remembered what their bond was like before Morgana went evil.
Great podcast as always 🙂
10th October 2021 @ 3:23 pm
I don’t think saying ‘he was a good father’ exclude the fact that (totally agree with you) Elyan and Tom didn’t get along and didn’t see eye to eye. It sounds to me like Elyan was a bit of a screw up wild child, and he’s only now grown up and become responsible, and yes, wouldn’t it be lovely to feel some of that here? Even just a simple line of ’I’m sorry he never saw how far we’ve both come’ because Gwen is queen and Elyan is a knight and they are both good and honourable people! Tom didn’t get to see that, and that’s tragic!
10th October 2021 @ 3:32 pm
Oh, also, your 2012 Sun / Death by Shadow fanfic sounds awesomely gruesome!! Haha
12th October 2021 @ 3:21 pm
Haha yea, I may write it again at some point and stretch it out, it sure wasn’t rated for teens and lower, lemme just say lol
11th October 2021 @ 8:54 pm
That knight’s handshake! Lovely. Arthur doesn’t give Merlin an odd look or too long a hesitation. He takes his arm and smiles! (hear me fan-scream internally) This is the best scene to show a non-watcher and totally confuse them, coz it appears as if Merlin is Arthur’s advisor, not servant. –
That’s true. He is his advisor though. So it’s not really untrue. I also loved the handshake. 🙂
7th October 2021 @ 9:17 pm
Hello! First comment here, because when you mentioned panto villains and catboy!merlin I just had to share this: https://youtu.be/RSaNKmAxtxg
Notice the nose wiggles and eyeliner – very cute XD Also a cameo from Valiant at the end haha
P.S. I’ll hopefully come back next week with some cohernt thoughts*
*subject to availability
10th October 2021 @ 3:35 pm
Hahaha what a fantastic entrance to the website you made there, Matthew!! 🐱🐱🐱
11th October 2021 @ 8:01 pm
Hello Matthew! 😀
7th October 2021 @ 7:28 pm
Ok I really struggled with Gwen’s arc. I love the idea of the psychological torture but by the end I was thinking “she’s been here about three days though, right? Stockholm syndrome doesn’t set in that quickly, right?” And as usual, I wish they’d have Gwen try to escape or do something – I don’t care how or why she fails, so long as she tries once and as an audience we know for sure it’s impossible before she gives up.
I despite Gaius’ lines at the end. It makes no sense. If the point is to set up for the Evil!Gwen reveal, then why can’t he say “Gwen is safe, Elyan would be glad that his death was in saving her” or something, instead of dismissing both Merlin’s feelings of grief for his friend and our feelings about a well-loved character dying?
Including Queen Mab pissed me off because she’s too well-established a character in folklore to just suddenly drop in and use merely as a plot device. The costuming was cool but she didn’t strike me as much of a queen. It didn’t feel like Merlin was meeting the literal queen of the fae, it felt like yet another moment for the writers to go “heyheyheyhey it’s a name you recognise!! Queen Mab, geddit?!” with no purpose beyond that moment.
Anyway, some good things. I always love it when Merlin gets spidey senses. I love that we have a return to season 1’s fairytale vibes. I’m really glad we got to see the knights interacting as friends and supporting each other and Gwen.
8th October 2021 @ 10:23 am
despise** Gaius’s lines. Not “despite”. Why do I only notice typos the day after.
Also, to add to my general complaining about an episode I actually didn’t mind that much: I’d entirely forgotten that this was Elyan’s death episode. I could have sworn I remembered him in the final episodes, actually, but perhaps that was just wishful thinking – or the characterisation of the knights has gone so downhill that they’re basically interchangeable… aside from Leon getting to be the Sensible One and Gwaine getting to be the Not Sensible One. Hm.
10th October 2021 @ 3:38 pm
I automatically read it as ‘despise’ but yes, I do the exact same thing! I hit ‘send’ and IMMEDIATELY notice typos!! Hahaha
And yes! Thank you! I was almost convinced (and may have even said it on air at some point?) that Elyan does stuff in the finale… I could have sworn he does in Part I, to show us that things are dire and people will die… shows what I know lol
11th October 2021 @ 8:07 pm
it felt like yet another moment for the writers to go “heyheyheyhey it’s a name you recognise!! Queen Mab, geddit?!” with no purpose beyond that moment. –
Oh, undoubtedly! In my own comment, I also wanted to call out the throwaway comment about ‘The place from where we saw the Dolorous Place.” Now the Dolorous Place is an established magical castle/ location in Arthurian literature and has its own stories and lore attached. I have NO idea why Arthur suddenly refers to the Dark Tower as the Dolorous Place or how it is meant to link to its literary counterpart. It is literally a throwaway comment that comes from nowhere and is never mentioned again. Really odd and, yeah, like you say, it’s basically just providing signposts of Arthurian literature that look flashy but ultimately lead nowhere. 🙁
7th October 2021 @ 3:47 pm
Sorry for drowning you in tragedy last week 😀 This time, it’s just scary (good for October I guess) 😉
So, here we are, the Magical Stockholm Syndrome episode, a.k.a. “is this still a family show?” episode, or, the scariest episode in the whole of Merlin (for me)
I was a bit surprised that this episode had no emotional impact for you – for me, while I did see all the imperfections in how the Gwen scenes were cut (and you’re right, that Elyan ‘evil laugh’ is straight from early Hollywood or something), the whole situation was super scary for me. I know it’s probably mostly a “me” thing – I tend to get easily triggered by brainwashing / hypnosis / mind manipulation done in films and TV.
I agree about the snakes 😀 They look really not like a threat they are made to be.
I LOVED Queen Mab and I wished we got more of her than 20 seconds (I counted). That whole exchange is great, and I really like the chaotic neutral / fey vibe. I always find it refreshing when there are characters that are neither good nor evil. Also, I really like the “Dark Tower is not a real place” as a concept. It sounds really fairy tale-y (like when you enter a forest and you unknowingly cross the boundary to the fairyland, and you’re still in a place of sorts, but it’s more like a place parallel to the real world, not a part of it). I agree they probably should have done more with that.
Gwen’s line “Morgana enchanted it [the sword] to protect me” struck me this time around when I was rewatching, but I think it actually makes sense for brainwashed!Gwen to say it. She already believes that Morgana is the only true friend, so it makes sense for her to think that this twisted thing is some kind of protection. I also don’t think that brainwashed!Gwen hates Elyan, at least, she doesn’t seem to. It feels that, perhaps, her bond with her brother is too deep and old for Morgana to uproot entirely. I don’t know if it’s the intention of the writers or if I’m making a headcanon here, but that’s how it reads to me (probably that’s also why Elyan conveniently dies in this episode – it would have been interesting to see if Gwen would falter in her newfound evil-ness if Elyan was still around next episode). And it might seem untidy story-wise, but I think it works for me. Because this time, Morgana’s “game”, though still aided by magic, was very much psychological, and when it comes to psychology, there’s no switch between “good” and “evil” that you can just flip to change a person. It’s believable that some traces of “old Gwen” would still be there.
Interesting soundtrack choices this episode! The Sidhe / Lake of Avalon theme is playing with Queen Mab, which makes sense, given she’s probably somehow connected to them as being a fairy. But, more interestingly, in all the scenes where Morgana dines with Gwen / plays nice to her in order to manipulate her, we get the intro to The Witch’s Aria from The Dragon’s Call (that weird sound which I can’t quite place – it sounds like a crossover between a theremin and Mongolian jaw harp, ohmygod, somebody help me, why do I keep obsessing over this)! It’s curious. Is it implying that Morgana is now like Mary Collins, enchanting Gwen with her words just as she enchanted everyone with her song? There is definitely an element of dulling the senses in both cases. And they both go for similar esthetic choices: cobwebs. Cobwebs are all the witch fad right now. It’s interesting that that’s the connection that’s drawn.
7th October 2021 @ 9:19 pm
“you’re still in a place of sorts, but it’s more like a place parallel to the real world, not a part of it”
I like the sound of that too, like if they crossed the threshold of the forest, they enter a land literally oozing of pure magic like an open wound in the earth, full of tricks and traps and stuff of nightmares! A land infected, like the perilous lands, which is kinda what it resembles. If only the show had the time and effects to back it up…
Gwen’s feelings for her brother in the scene are a little odd to interpret. At this point this might have been the ultimate last trigger Morgana used to break Gwen. Otherwise between Gwen saying ‘I’d rather stay her and die’ and the sword scene, we don’t see what Morgana does differently to push her over the edge, unless the sword bit IS that. Morgana might have planted triggers like telling her the sword is protecting her, but if Arthur or Elyan come to ‘rescue’ her and die then it’s their fault, not Morgana’s. How else would Gwen possibly be won over by Morgana, if it weren’t for her magic sword, Elyan wouldn’t have died. I agree she must have still felt for her brother, and didn’t let on she was nearly on Morgana’s side, she might have otherwise said something like “Morgana’s enchanted this sword to protect me. Don’t fight the sword, let Morgana take me away from you.” Testing Elyan’s answer to what she saw in the mandrake room.
11th October 2021 @ 7:59 pm
or, the scariest episode in the whole of Merlin (for me) –
You are definitely NOT alone. Same here.
Also, I really like the “Dark Tower is not a real place” as a concept. It sounds really fairy tale-y (like when you enter a forest and you unknowingly cross the boundary to the fairyland, and you’re still in a place of sorts, but it’s more like a place parallel to the real world, not a part of it). –
I really like this idea too – I just wish they had given us just a smidgeon more so we could understand what is meant by it. Are the dangers of the place created by one’s own mind? Will you start doubting yourself in the Tower, making it a place where your internal doubts and conflicts suddenly become reality and you have to face them? Is it, like you say, a crossing into the faery world, like the through the Gates of Avalon or across the Bridge into the Perilous Lands? I think lots of these interpretations just work and it wouldn’t even be a problem to allow different interpretations. But the one line from Mab is just not enough to lead anywhere. Sad. Also, all this begs the question: how is Morgana impervious to the dangers of the Tower? Maybe because she is already deranged and it only works on healthy minds? Maybe because SPOILER she has already lived through her actual nightmare in the last two years so nothing the Tower can do would have even close to as much effect on her?
I also don’t think that brainwashed!Gwen hates Elyan, at least, she doesn’t seem to. –
I agree. I also think that Elyan’s death in some way completed Morgana’s spell, like it was an event that could Gwen completely against Arthur because, somehow, she blamed him for the death of her brother? Again, nothing is actually textualised but I am headcannoning. I guess if Morgause did use the same spell on Morgana, her almost murder by Merlin could have equally been the completion of that spell?
It’s interesting that that’s the connection that’s drawn. –
I noticed the reference to the Witch’s Aria as well. I don’t quite know what it means or why it was done but I do like that we haven’t forgotten the first episode yet and are harking back to it. I feel nostalgic hearing it.