Episode V.I & V.II – Arthur’s Bane Part 1&2
“I’m glad to be with you Samwise Gamgee. Here, at the end of all things.”
Welcome back to Destiny & Chicken! We’re so happy you’re here with us, as we discuss the double opener of Season 5.
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8th September 2021 @ 1:30 am
Haha nice!! I really enjoy his podcasts! I just realize I miswrote⊠itâs titled The Tolkien Professor and not Professor Tolkien! Whoops!
5th September 2021 @ 7:48 pm
Gosh, I have missed this so much! Reading all your clever and interesting comments has made me very self conscious about mine and how out of practise I am haha, but I will try my best!
I think I might actually be the most unobservant person ever, because I knew I was before but not to THAT extent. I genuinely thought this episode was fine, and then the more I listened to you guys i just steadily got more and moreâŠohâŠoh no. Argh – really unsatisfying. But, there were a few moments that I really did think were interesting – Iâm sure not untouched by the nonsense, but I thought Iâd say something about them anyway as isolated moments.
I was thinking about Merlinâs line: âI wish I didnât, but I doâ to Arthurâs âmore than brothersâ speech and question of âDo you understand?â. But perhaps this is less of question, and more a reassurance to Merlin. Heâs saying you do understand, Merlin, because youâve done this for me countless times over just as I have done for you. But Iâm not sure if Merlinâs answer accepts that, because his motivation isnât as pure as that anymore. Could it be more something heâs lost and thatâs why he regrets to understand it? – Arthur seems to be at a place that the Merlin of Le Morte DâArthur was at, where heâs doing it for the bond they share and because itâs the right thing to do. Not, rather, for the promise of a distant destiny, and because he has become so fixated on Arthur, and destiny, that he has no idea what he would do without it?
I have a question whether this could be foreshadowing – âto betray our beliefs Merlin, that, is what will destroy everything weâve strived forâ. But Merlin betrayed his beliefs long agoâŠis this saying that Camelot has always been doomed, that âdestinyâ was always fighting a losing battle? Has the ideal and dream of Albion always been flawed if the only way to achieve it was through blood and sacrifice and murder?
I have another question: has the Golden Age of Albion passed in those three years?! Is this the kind of sequel, or epilogue? Or do we just never get there – is that part of the tragedy that will come?
Something I thought interesting was how, with Merlin and Arthur being so at odds for these episodes and I think will be for a lot of the season, how Merlin seems to breaking away as an extension of Arthur. His advice no longer seems to be an echo of Arthurâs subconscious – what he deep down knows he should/wants to do – but a contradiction of Arthurâs, and what was once his own, moral intuition. You said at the end of last season, I believe, that Merlin is moving more into a protagonist role. Is this part of what goes wrong? Is the role of Emrys to remain that extension of the Once and Future King, or is it to step out and take direct action?
Love that Morgana isnât doing the whole poetic murder thing – I appreciate like you do that she just wants it done, after being fixated on it for so long. The parallel between Merlin and Morgana is horribly prominent in this episode, I think – both absolutely obsessed with one thing, one goal and the ruthlessness theyâre willing to demonstrate in order to achieve it. After all, they literally both have scenes aggressively demanding why their companion âdidnât just kill himâ. So we are also paralleling Mordred and Arthur too, then: both are determined to do the right thing in this episode, and achieve it too, while Mordred and Morgana are left, wounded, in the dust and abandoned by their friends – though, thatâs not to say I am not VERY unhappy that they all just leave Merlin! Gwaine?! Really?!
Thank you, as ever, for opening my eyes to it all, even if itâs not particularly positive this week! Letâs hope next week is better. Hope youâve all had a lovely hiatus!
5th September 2021 @ 8:04 pm
“Love that Morgana isnât doing the whole poetic murder thing â I appreciate like you do that she just wants it done, after being fixated on it for so long. The parallel between Merlin and Morgana is horribly prominent in this episode, I think â both absolutely obsessed with one thing, one goal and the ruthlessness theyâre willing to demonstrate in order to achieve it. After all, they literally both have scenes aggressively demanding why their companion âdidnât just kill himâ. So we are also paralleling Mordred and Arthur too, then: both are determined to do the right thing in this episode, and achieve it too, while Mordred and Morgana are left, wounded, in the dust and abandoned by their friends ”
Oh, you put it into words! I love this take. I think the Merlin-Morgana parallels are really something which this show does pretty well, and I’m glad that we are doing it again here, in season 5. During the hiatus, I re-watched s1 and s2 of Merlin, and I noticed how nuanced s2 sometimes used to be, showing Merlin in a very morally grey area and paralleling him with Morgana quite strongly. Then, in s3 especially (and maybe to some extent in s4) they seemed to have backed out from it a little, as if scared that they should show Merlin as unambiguously Good and Morgana as unambiguously Bad in a family show. I like that they are coming back to the grey area for the final season – that’s what makes it more mature, not the ravens, dungeons and wells.
5th September 2021 @ 8:10 pm
Totally totally agree. Iâve always found this parallel fascinating – itâs almost as though this is saying that this is what Merlin could have been, and perhaps in this final season, they are saying that this is what he is. Chilling ahh! And yes, I didnât pick up on that, thank you for mentioning it! They really do back off, and I hate that Morgana is suddenly cardboard cutout villain. But this blurred line with them both is really interesting – I hope we see more of it!
7th September 2021 @ 12:11 pm
so I’ve put a lot of your comment into my ‘S5 round up document’ (which may also become the end of the year ‘ENTIRE MERLIN ROUND UP’ document lol) because I think a lot of it will need to be a discussion to have at the end, but honestly, this?
–I have another question: has the Golden Age of Albion passed in those three years?! Is this the kind of sequel, or epilogue? Or do we just never get there â is that part of the tragedy that will come?–
QUESTION FOR THE AGES!!!!! lol
seriously though, I think a lot of our round up discussion will center on the original prophecy, and what happened to that, and why it happened so… watch this space? continue speculating? squeeze your eyes tightly shut and hope for the best?? lol
M Xx
8th September 2021 @ 9:49 pm
Oh, thank you! Exciting things! (And sad and scary oh my god how did we get here?!)
8th September 2021 @ 4:08 pm
I love your take on how Merlin used to be Arthur’s conscience and voicing things back to Arthur that encourage and reassure him of the right things to do, and now it’s like we are hearing Merlin’s new voice of reason and it’s a lot less… reasonable.
It’s been warped by years of living through Arthur and latching to his side as an extension, that now in season 5, Merlin’s breaking away is so clear and his desperation to do something right by destiny is making him alienated from Arthur. Now he’s sounding more like the devil on Arthur’s shoulder, not his, as Uther once put it, his guardian angel…
8th September 2021 @ 6:42 pm
Oh I love this take! That the very premise of his destiny, of the helper he was supposed to be is in fact what âwarpsâ him – fascinating. And really interesting that Uther is the one that says thatâŠI always found the relationship between Merlin and him fascinating, this kind of antagonism that only one party is aware of, alongside the fact that Uther put him there in the first place. But, that is a conversation for next week!
8th September 2021 @ 7:17 pm
Indeed! I think that will lead nicely into the topics of next episode đ
5th September 2021 @ 7:10 pm
Season 5, epsiodes 1&2: Arthur’s Bane
OR: How Gwaine discovered that somebody had invented electric torches and was flashing it through the tunnels;
OR: Where the viewers all remember Mordredâs last line (âI will never forgive this, Emrys. And I shall never forget.â) but Mordred has forgotten it and (SPOILER) it shall remain forgotten;
OR: the episode here the alien looks so ridiculous that even a literal key they dug up would have been better.
This may be a bit SPOILERY: While I agree that Arthurâs Bane isnât a great double (to be polite), I do think having the same director and writer responsible for both the first and last two episodes of the season create interesting parallelism: Merlin running through the lonely, empty castle halls, looking for his friends is quite depressing in its foreshadowing. Also, later on, when Merlin rescues Arthur from the battle and then waits for him to wake up by a small fire, before they spend quite a lot of time by themselves traipsing through the landscape – thatâs also really hard to watch now. Not sure if it was intentional but I appreciate the structural cleverness if there was any.
I really donât understand why we needed a new Round Table. It lessens the impact of the previous one. It also begs the question whether the âGolden Ageâ has happened in the three years that have passed or whether it is in its making. Merlin, sometimes, seems to think that the dragonâs first prophecy is not yet fulfilled. At other times, he tells Arthur that âeverything we have worked so hard to create will be goneâ if Arthur dies – and that makes it sound like the Golden Age has happened in the three years. But is Albion united? Certainly, magic is not free since Arthur wonât listen to a sorcerer (the Vatesâ prophecy). Iâm so confused. Also, the plan to rescue Gwaine and co from Ismere is formed in Arthurâs room with just the original Round Table. Why do we have a big one then? Arthur is still being exclusive and that defeats the entire idea of the Round Table. It isnât just a table thatâs round but it is a symbol for inclusion and equality.
I hate the implication that Gwen is a âtypicalâ girl now: late to meetings, low-cut dresses, needing to be pampered with soft words rather than with honesty – if sheâs late, sheâs late. She knows, Arthur knows, so why does Arthur think she is not intelligent enough to handle anything but a lie (âGuinevere, right on time.â). Itâs offensive. Also, her apparent contribution to the meeting where they decide how to approach Ismere is similarly offensive. Sheâs meant to look really smart and important, an equal member of the group. But all she does is read the map – I wish theyâd found her something better to do. I know itâs meant to be three years later and Gwen is supposed to have gotten used to her role as queen. But why couldnât we see her struggles with her new role? Why couldnât she still show some reluctance to be served? No, Sefa must even bring her the papers that lie on her desk!
How I wished we had seen more of Merlin and Sefa. I had such hopes⊠But I love that Colin kept his little dorky, adorable bow that he first did with Freya and the rose when he hands Sefa the apple. Nice consistency.
Couldnât we have Liam Cunningham for longer – the villain of season 5? And then we could have done something with the potential romance between Sefa and Merlin. But again, it brings up the fact that we know nothing about the druids except that in season 2 they were peaceful people. However, most of the ones we have seen were actually fighters, such as the apparently charismatic rogue druid Alvarr or Ruadan. I wish we had been given some further explanation of how Ruadan became a warrior-druid and what the peaceful druids think of all this.
The hair in season 5 is horrendous: Gwenâs long hair does not suit the hair colour or texture of the hair on the crown of her head. Gaiusâ white hair has turned into grey? Thatâs not how this works. Sefaâs hair hanging loose on the sides of her face are also obviously just for show: in the real life of a servant, it would get in her way.
Merlin and Arthur keep having the same conversation which leads to Arthur declaring the bond between him and the knights and his vow to free them from Ismere. (Iâve counted: they have a variation of the same conversation 4x times in episode one – I gave up in episode 2.) And while itâs nice that Merlin is, by Arthurâs invitation to have food, somewhat included in this bond, it all feels a little condescending – does it need to be said so many times? Could you just show it? Also, the Bond of Sacrifice musical cue is SO overused.
It’s interesting that these episodes make out Arthurâs Bane to be himself (His trust in others? Showing mercy when he doesnât shoot Mordred? His absolute belief in the bond of his knights and their loyalty?) but after this double we will never hear the words âArthurâs Baneâ again. Iâm not really sure what to make of it.
Season 5 is the beginning of broken, merciless and suspicious Merlin. I know, I know: he has done many terrible things and they haunt him. But I find the development of the happy-spirited, hopeful Merlin into this âever-burdened-by-fate, Iâve-forgotten-laughter-because-I-know-what-weâre-facingâ Merlin a really disturbing development. What is that saying to viewers: that growing up will result in the necessary loss of joy or hope? That growing up WILL only be completed when you are fully broken, cold-hearted towards your fellow men and resigned to the inevitable tragedy of life one cannot escape? The Merlin I knew could, despite all the hardship, (which, if we remember, he has had to bear since he was born!), take hope and pleasure and rejoice even in small things. He was active and kept going and tried anyway. I donât like what the show is saying about growing up and the effect life will inevitably have on you. And I canât really see the development of Merlin into this, even if they gave us three silent years to fill in the gaps. But those were years of peace not continuous disappointment! It makes me want to ask: âWhat happened to you, Merlin? As a young boy you were so kind, so compassionate?â So much for being opposites or Merlin being the light to Morganaâs darkness.
Lindsay Duncan is back and she is awesome!
I like the sweet scene between Gwen and Sefa sharing a meal. I wish theyâd ever given us that with Merlin and Arthur. But I do like the scene after the dinner in Annisâ castle. Merlin isnât there to work for Arthur, he just sits there to keep him company.
The egg scene is so, so silly – Arthur wouldnât have sent Merlin to âperformâ because he wouldnât have wanted to be embarrassed by him!
Itâs kind of cool that the bounty hunter recognises Arthur by his sword. Why couldnât we have seen those stories that made Excalibur famous as Arthurâs sword throughout the land?
Gwenâs line: âRespect is to be earned! It cannot be bought with blood.â I really disagree with the sentiment. Not the blood part – but surely each person deserves respect? You shouldnât have to earn it but you can lose it. Again, what exactly is the show teaching us?
I think the twist in this double with Mordred stabbing Morgana and becoming a knight because of the love that binds him to Arthur and his cause is probably my favourite twist in all of Merlin.
5th September 2021 @ 11:50 pm
-I hate the implication that Gwen is a âtypicalâ girl now: late to meetings, low-cut dresses, needing to be pampered with soft words rather than with honesty â if sheâs late, sheâs late.-
Yes!! I actually love all that you say in your paragraph about Gwen, but didnât want to paste it all. I would have loved to see the growing pains of learning how to become Queen.
– it all feels a little condescending â does it need to be said so many times? Could you just show it? –
YES! It IS condescending to the audience and to Merlin. I am always peeved at scenes like this in Season 5 where Arthur is explain this close bond with his men. I know it isnât meant to be a slap in the face to Merlin, but I kind of feel like it is! Honestly though⊠Iâm prob just holding onto my bitterness from the finale, but we can talk about that when we get there.
7th September 2021 @ 7:10 am
Iâm prob just holding onto my bitterness from the finale, but we can talk about that when we get there. –
I’m so scared of the finale. I don’t know if I’ll be able to talk about it… đŹ
7th September 2021 @ 12:24 pm
–OR: Where the viewers all remember Mordredâs last line (âI will never forgive this, Emrys. And I shall never forget.â) but Mordred has forgotten it and (SPOILER) it shall remain forgotten;–
hahaha ah well, children say all sorts of dumb stuff, right? ::facepalm::
I agree on the director/writer combo paralelling the finale, which I hadn’t realised until I looked at the list of writers/directors for episode 3, thinking it was Justin’s last episode, and then scanned an realised that it wasn’t! I doubt they had story boarded far enough into the future to have things intentionally mirrorred here in the first two episodes, but I feel they definitely ensured to mirror them at the end, remembering these first two episodes.
— And while itâs nice that Merlin is, by Arthurâs invitation to have food, somewhat included in this bond, it all feels a little condescending â does it need to be said so many times? Could you just show it? Also, the Bond of Sacrifice musical cue is SO overused.–
I admire you for even getting through one episode counting the repetition, because I’m not sure I could have done it! and yep, completely agree, why do we need to be aggressively spoonfed this? and why so many times?? this might actually be the most extreme season re-set/re-establishment of characters, it just gets lost because there’s 20 episodes worth of plot shoved in, also ::facepalm::
–Itâs interesting that these episodes make out Arthurâs Bane to be himself (His trust in others? Showing mercy when he doesnât shoot Mordred? His absolute belief in the bond of his knights and their loyalty?) but after this double we will never hear the words âArthurâs Baneâ again. Iâm not really sure what to make of it.–
oh really? I hadn’t remembered that it never comes up again… interesting…
–So much for being opposites or Merlin being the light to Morganaâs darkness.–
there’s an interesting thought that Kirsty brought up about parallelling merlin and morgana, as opposed to contrasting them, the way we used to… which I find fascinating! it’s further down in the comments page (I think? maybe it’s up?? haha) if you’ve not seen it yet.
–Itâs kind of cool that the bounty hunter recognises Arthur by his sword. Why couldnât we have seen those stories that made Excalibur famous as Arthurâs sword throughout the land?–
very very true. and the fact that I just found myself asking ‘is it actually Excalibur? I don’t think I even know whether Arthur carries it as his main sword, now that he has it…?’ shows just how little we make of Excalibur… ::facepalm::
I feel like I’ve spent way too much time writing ‘facepalm’ in this comment section, and it makes me sad!
7th September 2021 @ 6:24 pm
Don’t worry, you have to facepalm where appropriate and these two episodes and the questions they raised have is ample opportunity.
In terms of Excalibur, I think it’s the sword Arthur carries now. It’s certainly the one he carries on this mission. My problem isn’t so much that the show doesn’t make more of Excalibur but that is expecting us to do the work. The bounty hunter recognises Arthur by his sword and we’re meant to go: “Oh, yes, because it’s Excalibur and it’s important because Arthur probably did very notable things with it in the three years.” Only, we’re given none of that.
9th September 2021 @ 10:19 am
honestly, even if Scottish Saxon just gave us one line where he goes ‘ah, the famous Excalibur’ then we could fill in the blanks where Arthur’s done heroic shit, and him and his sword have become known across the land…
Though, actually, no one’s named the sword in show, have they? We’ve only named it in the episode title… hmmm
8th September 2021 @ 5:49 pm
I actually understand Merlin’s development. An average life going into adulthood doesn’t compare to the one Merlin’s had. Of having been nearly killed, having to kill people himself and lose loved ones constantly along the way. To be lied to and encouraged to lie, to live in constant doubt and fear. THAT’S what explains the kind of paranoid, dark and broken adulthood he has become over time.
5th September 2021 @ 6:55 pm
Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Danuta’s comment.
4th September 2021 @ 7:46 pm
As much as I donât want anyone to feel bad, I have to admit to feeling so VALIDATED right now. God, season 5 made me so angry and yes, it started right off the bat with this double opener. Oy.
I agree with everything yaâll pointed out and what everyone is saying here in the comments, as well. It could have been better, so much better, and as usual it is the performance of the cast that keeps saving the day. Vlahos is a great addition, Katie is crushing the killer queen vibes, and apparently all Bradley has to do is wink and weâre more or less willing to carry on despite the dumpster fire of a plot weâve been handed đ
My only contribution is to rage rage rage against the random and violent choice to put Morgana and Aithusa in a hole for three years. Itâs so fucked up.
Since they had a time jump, they could have made any decision to get Morgana from point A to point B, any decision at all, and thatâs what they came up with? Torture, essentially? I just canâtâŠ
Mild spoilers: itâs made even worse by the fact that the explanation for it, when it does come, is practically a throwaway line that matters little to not at all. Iâm struggling to get past the Morgana arc and how horrible it is. I listened to D&C season 1 and 2 over the hiatus, so maybe the sting of squandered potential is fresher now than it has been before.
That being said, I have a soft spot for stories about evil queens and women going mad (think Cersei Lannister, Maleficent, all of Black Swan, etc.) so I am HERE for the moments of ruthless insanity that Katie is serving up.
7th September 2021 @ 12:31 pm
–As much as I donât want anyone to feel bad, I have to admit to feeling so VALIDATED right now. —
honestly, same. As always after releasing an episode in which we basically say ‘sorry, but that was trash’ we were biting our nails waiting for the hate emails and flames to rain down upon us. so yes, while I odn’t want anyone to agree with us and be misserable, I’m also really glad that mostly people agree with us! lol
Also YES. Bradley winks and I’m willing to do literally anything for him. That is life.
M Xx
8th September 2021 @ 1:09 am
Also YES. Bradley winks and Iâm willing to do literally anything for him. That is life.
So true! đ
4th September 2021 @ 9:15 am
Hello! Iâm so glad you are back, hope you had a good summer!
Ooooh boy, this is gonna hurt. Iâm gonna say right off the bat that this season is my least favourite and whereas the other seasons could get away with a few tweaks within the episodes, this one in my opinion could have done with a total rewrite and panned out totally different. Iâm not gonna fill this up with my own ideas of how things should have gone, headcanons galore, but needless to say, unfortunately this seasonâs comments are gonna be more negative than positive, I predict.
So! Right then, to start with generally, already Iâm going to resurrect my thoughts that so much more interesting stuff should have happened in the time between the three year skip. I will not obviously spoil anything but for episode 3, if it had to be done at all, would be better placed within the first year of Arthur and Gwenâs marriage, not this far, but thatâs for another day. The characters all have cases of âchanged too muchâ (Gwen), and changed too little (Arthur). Contrary to what I have heard others say, I do really like Merlin being darker, paranoid and pessimistic now. But it would be given extra explanation if we knew what horrors heâd been through during the three years we didnât see. To ours and their knowledge, Morgana was missing and apparently no one else had a go at attacking Camelot, so they have had nothing but peace and progression. However, nothing has changed at all! ⊠They have a nice shiny round table but thatâs it.
Going back to the three year gap, so much juicy stuff could have been shown to us. Bearing in mind this is a family show and kids love to get to the action, but Camelot still has been going through a big change, law/politics-wise. Gwen, a commoner, has become queen. Everyoneâs fine with it. Some of the head knights are commoners, everyoneâs fine with it. No conflict. In fact, Arthur hasnât knighted any more commoners to our knowledge since season 3 finale up to now with Mordred (Again weâll get there). Merlin is still the same overworked, underappreciated servant heâs ever been. Sure, we see more sass that Arthur ignores and he is listened to in some situations, but if Arthur is all about equality and Merlin is his best friend, call him to the table during important meetings where he wants advice. Gaius gets a chair but not Merlin? Now that Gwen is queen, Merlin is the only servant in the castle serving everyone (well, except new-girl Sefa). Speaking of, why no baby yet, my lady! Gwen, you married for love, you should be preggers three times now! These are the comments she would be expected to hear none stop since becoming queen. It doesnât matter that she should have a year or so of settling in and doing other duties because for the era, in the eyes of many people, producing the next heir already IS her duty and three years is getting concerning. A line here or there from some stuck-up courtier to Gwen whilst Arthur and Merlin went off to Ismere would have done.
Iâm getting ahead to myself so I will comment as I re-watch lol:
During Merlinâs rushing through the castle calling out, we could have seen several few second cuts in between to someone else running around too, a swish of red fabric, the jewel from a circlet bouncing on their head as they move. When Merlin catches up with Arthur and we realise heâs been trying to find Gwen and she finally appears, it could have been a nice little hint of Gwenâs personality and conduct as queen to show that she had been doing something else in the lower town dressed in dull clothing, lost track of time, and was racing back to the castle to get changed into formal wear to get to the meeting as a parallel to Merlin rushing around trying to find her. When Arthur walks her into the room, she could have discreetly been trying to get her breathing and lady-like decorum under control. With Lancelot dead, thereâs no suggestion she was sneaking around with anyone else in this story. Without explanation, Gwen just turning up late without us knowing why, without a proper sorry, looking perfect and being late enough to warrant Arthur sending Merlin to look everywhere for her, doesnât seem very Gwen-like to me. It might seem like such a weird thing to complain about right at the very start but this just got me thinking already Gwen is the first thing wrong with season 5. These two episodes itâs not too bad, but later it will be. To paraphrase the mad hatter, Gwen used to much muchier, sheâs lost her muchness.
Side note, Bradley looks Gorgeous. I prefer him with this look compared to season 4, I dunno what it is, maybe the hair was weird to me then. But my god, him and Colin are two buffed up babes in this season haha.
You guys said in the previous season at some point that there may be a reason why they have not started to age Arthur at all. In season 4 there were experimental shots taken at the time where we see Arthur looking at bit older with longer hair, but they scrapped it, as you two suggested, because Arthur was about to become a âyoung kingâ and had to look it compared to many other rulers we saw in the season who commented on how he was untested and inexperienced. With season five, despite three years gone by and no-one generally ages too much in that space of time, I would expect a tad difference, maybe not physically, but behaviour-wise. The stress of being king would age someone massively, Arthur can still look young, but act wearier and more serious without a total character change. Like Merlin does. Though even in the dark ages, fashions changed all the time, the lack of beard and his short hair are actually accurate to how Iâd expect Arthur to keep up the roman-Briton style his family is descended from. Merlin on the other hand, though must be in his mid-twenties by now (?), could have started to look different as if heâs becoming the figure that stands next to Arthur in legend, longer hair and the start of a beard, maybe even to start looking like his dad. We all know how stunning he looks in âthe living and the deadâ BBC show.
I like how in keeping with the tradition of a lost knight, there is an empty chair at the round table, Iâm guessing would have belonged to Lancelot. Also, with the progression Camelot should be going through, shouldnât there be a separately made round room for the round table? I have always loved the imagery from stories and other adaptations where the round stone table is in a specially made massive round room with a dome sky light above for the sun to beam down. I wanna know more about this table! Was it a wedding gift, did Arthur have it especially made, and when? Who are the other knights that donât get lines that are permitted to sit at the meetings? How do they remove the table when they want to use the grand hall for other things? This is why the three year time skip doesnât work for me again!
Finally some snow in the show! And⊠wolves?? Okay interesting. On the Merlin wiki page, the wolves are named as âmagic wolvesâ for some reason, even though they look normal and donât do anything magicalâŠ
Pet-peeve moment now. Like you guys said, why exposition for the sake of exposition?? I really do not like it when characters should know someone but for the benefit of the audience have it explained to them again out loud so that we know whatâs going on. See how this appears; Morgana has been apparently capturing people for a while and making them dig into the ground and have gone really far down like she is trying to find something. Liam Cunningham welcomes her when she gets back and she says they are running out of time (dunno what happens when time runs out though). Itâs made clear that Ruadan is a druid rebel who is in partnership with her and has clued her in to the specifics of prophecy, even the one about Arthurâs bane. âThe Diamir is the key to all knowledgeâ. Morgana asks what and where is this keyâŠ.. what?? Why would you ask that now if not to catch the audience up? You have surely known this because you said âfor months you have been searching!â I really do not like stupid unnatural catch-up conversations like this. No offence to Katie and Liam, they are magnificent.
So, Ismere. It appears that the later named saxons at this point have already claimed this land, since Ismere is Anglo-Saxon for âice-lakeâ and they are already in league with Morgana and snatching men and taking them back up to the fortress, and other âmeresâ I know of are up north near the lake district, so have Arthur and Merlin travelled in just 2 days north through Annisâ land (which has also appeared to have moved) all that way to the middle of the country?? Apparently, the northern plains are not part of Camelot anymore too. Which makes sense if Camelot has no snow, yet Ismere is in Ood planet level of winter. Geography in this show gives me a headache.
ANNIS! My Lady! So glad she is back. Good to see there is consistency with at least one other place that Arthur has allied with, we get Annis but not Elena, Olaf, or Mithian… (yet).
Hate Arthurâs and Merlinâs banter now, Iâm sorry. I know this is how they speak to each other, but it doesnât work anymore. Three years have passed and their only way of talking to each other now is still insults and jokes that arenât funny, comments to contradict everything, and deep speeches about loyalty and love for your fellow man and whatnot. Arthurâs comment about âif Merlin went missing, he wouldnât botherâ, certainly doesnât ring true since we had not long did that in âservant of two mastersâ, though Merlin would never know how Arthur went out to search for him. But the way they speak to each other now doesnât make sense, not when Arthur still acts like there is a class division between them after all this time when it suits him. Make Merlin a steward or head advisor and talk to each other like youâve known each other for 10 years, or just donât keep them stuck saying the same stuff to each other like they could be in season 2. There is no development or progression with anyoneâs relationships anymore, and it wonât get better, at least to me.
I love the little village they pass through where Merlin meets the seer, the late-people looked like they actually made their homes in the cliff face, thatâs pretty neat! Annisâ land is already made to look so much rougher and primitive than Camelot but Iâm not complaining.
Has Merlin been an active Dragonlord at all? He calls Killi for what seems like the first time in three years and talks to him about the situation at hand (understandable), but there is no mention of Aithusa or whether Merlin has had Killi searching for him, as it becomes clear Aithusa has been with Morgana for years. Also, I get why Aithusa might be loyal and friends with Morgana, not controlled to be with her because she ainât a Dragonlord, but⊠how does Morgana know Aithusaâs name?
Watching the scene with Gwen and Sefa when it first aired, I remember thinking it was all a little⊠queer-baity? I donât know, maybe I was imagining things, but when the camera focuses on Gwenâs hand of Sefaâs and then on Sefaâs flustered nervous face, it just seems to me like they were trying to hint that Sefa had some attraction to Gwen. Of course, it didnât and cannot go anywhere, but was just curious if that was deliberate on the makersâ part. I like how friendly Gwen is with her, she wants to build the same strong bond with her servant as she once had with Morgana. She must have had another servant before now, since Sefa is really young and quite new to the role it seems. What happened to the other one?
Donât like when Annis says âin all his failings he must have some skillsâ. Like, madam I love you, but you donât know Merlin, you met him once before (?), back off!
When Merlin is looking into the fire place, there is a random 3 second shot of the fire itself, I get it is to show that this is what Merlin is absent-mindedly focused on, but I was expecting the fire to start warping into shapes that reminded Merlin to the vision.
This is my headcanon fanfictiony idea: Tauren (Season 1), Alvarr (Season 2) and now Ruadan and Sefa are all part of the same rebel druid family. Three brothers and one daughter/niece, Ruadan the tactful eldest, Tauren the cautious middle, and Alvarr the charismatic youngest, and Sefa is Ruadanâs sweet reluctant daughter who was forced to play a part in the family plan of playing out the prophecies on Morganaâs side. Thought she might turn up later and decide to stay in Camelot since all her âfamilyâ is dead. Spoilers, like Alvarr, we just never see her again. Maybe she could have turned up on the bad side with Alvarr. Boo.
Morgana, light some fire pits or wear something practical, you make me feel cold looking at you!
After Arthur yells for everyone to run, Katieâs horse bucks up in her face and yet they kept it in lol.
Ruadan, youâre a druid sorcerer, why arenât you using magic to your advantage, or sensing Merlin/Emrys is nearâŠ? That would have been neat. Amongst the men fighting, we could get a catch a look on Ruadanâs face that he senses Emrysâ strong presence and yet canât see who it is with all the chaos, but yells back at Morgana that Emrys is here. Surely Mordred isnât the only druid we know for sure has always felt Merlinâs presence magic-wise.
In the scene where Merlin and Arthur are huddled up for the night and talking, there is a deleted bit where Arthur is already lying down and Merlin comes along and stuffs himself in the gap between Arthur and the rock. Arthur pulls a face and gets up, you think itâs because Merlin was too much in his personal space and practically on top of him, but instead Arthur tells Merlin to scooch over because Arthur âalways sleeps on the leftâ, which I find hilarious! I have gone over all the times we ever see Arthur asleep in his bed or in camp in my mind palace and can say that is canonly correct! Arthur does indeed mainly keep to the left side. Just thought that was cute.
Dunno if very last minute, the writers were trying to hint at it, but the headcanon I came up with regarding Euchdag the Diamir alien (yes thatâs its name apparently), is that Magic is in fact an extraterrestrial blue/gold energy source that seeps into the land when a meteor crashed into earth, and like radiation, effected and mutated the primitive humans at the time, first creating Euchdagâs race and birthing over time the concept of the triple goddess which might have actually been three women that merged into one by magic, and that the crystal cave was actually formed from the original alien meteorite crash site where people went to learn how to wield the energy and discovered they could see time in the crystals that formed. I donât know what else what the makers were trying to say with this blue humanoid thing⊠Just like most species in Doctor who, itâs the last of its kind and pretty ancient, maybe it was trying to hint at what Merlin would one day being like, but we already got that with the fisher king.
I kinda like Gwenâs political tactics in this episode, she appears harsh, but again we donât know what she has done and been through in the three years prior. And it turns out to be a trick and she hopes to lure Ruadan to Camelot. Bold move, but shows Gwen can do stuff whilst Arthurâs away.
Net scene is a little cringey, I have always had mixed feelings about it. The most annoying thing is that Merlin lets them both sleep awkwardly trapped in the net ALL NIGHT, where he could just look away from Arthur and use magic to snap the rope. If Arthur ever questioned it, which I doubt he would, it could just be excused that the weight of both of them and Arthurâs armour was too much for the net to handle. But why does Merlin not get them out?!
âLet my servant go, he doesnât deserve to die like thisâ Arthur honey, you do know that these men likely are the ones capturing people and dragging them to Morgana to be slaves, I get the gesture, but I think if some bad people wanted you alive more than dead, Iâd consider death the better option. If they killed Arthur, they would have just added Merlin to the men they later drag through Ismere, which they do.
Love love love Alexander as older Mordred. He studied watching Asaâs Mordred to get his mannerisms down. There are times where Mordred does a thing where he smiles slightly but in a beat his face drops and stares deadpan with icy eyes. Chills! And Vlahos deliberately does the same thing a few times in the series. And he copied Merlinâs neckerchief look! Cuuuuute!
For the sake of headcanons, there may be another reason why Merlin specifically doesnât ever appear older. And thatâs all Iâll say in case people donât know the whole point of Merlin in legend haha.
Obviously, this is gonna be mentioned a lot so better get it out the way. Arthur is NEVER going to remember where he knows Mordred from. That bit on the end of the episode where Mordred says âyou saved my life years agoâ and only when Merlin says Mordredâs name, there appears to be a look on Arthurâs face that suggests he knows now heâs the little boy he rescued, but thatâs as far as it goes. From this point on, Mordred may as well be a young man who Arthur has just met and grows a bond with because he saved him, same as every other knight. Mordred will rarely get opportunities to remind us than he is a druid, Arthur will never make a point that he remembers Mordred is one and that this is a massive step in Merlinâs eyes for Camelot accepting magic.
I kind of like the Scottish guy, we donât see him much nor know his fate, but I just like how he is. Dunno if we are supposed to take notice heâs Scottish or if he is actually a saxon, but either way it fits because Ismere may be half way up to Scotland and the Scots didnât like anybody else too anyway haha.
What if Morgana was hoping Sefa would be another high priestess? Would it have been worth Morganaâs while to take another young girl under her wing same Morgause did with her, teach and mold her to become a rank under high priestess so she wouldnât be alone.
They really did a great job of making the place look cold, you can hear the wind, everyoneâs shaking, their skin is pink but their fingers and ears are black. Really well done. Merlin should have a better wardrobe now, just saying.
Best wig of Gaiusâ yet. Too bad that by this point Gaius should be dead and we wouldnât have seen this new hair. Poor Gaius doesnât really have a part to play anymore, replace Gaiusâ lines with Merlin instead at least at the start and he can do the same job. When Gaius is sat with Gwen, give his lines to Elyan and give Gwen and Elyan a scene together.
Merlin tells Arthur he should have killed Mordred. Whoa! This is how far Merlin has made it, now to the point he is angrily shouting at his master to kill someone who could no longer follow them anyway. I get this is Mordred and Merlin is paranoid after seeing the vision but it still doesnât get easier watching how Merlin is changing in order to protect Arthur. Where murder is now his first thought.
The sheer over-use in this season of the effect of changing day to night is a little weird and over-kill. Did the show not get to film at real night time at all anymore? Nights in Camelot just look so fake now.
Ruadanâs chest kick is the bloody best! The dark look on Cunninghamâs face before the quick turn! The man doesnât need magic, geez! Oh, but his death scene really does make me tear up every time đ The beautiful music that plays, expect to hear this a lot in the season, pretty much when any named character dies (insert Micheleâs future doo-doos here).
Ruadan not doing much physical magic until injured and angered makes sense to me. A predator animal becomes more dangerous when cornered and hurt. To me throughout the show, the druids donât seem to be magical themselves, more that they worship the magics of the earth and only use as much magic themselves as to not harm nature, which is next to nothing. Arthur never did anything for the druids so it makes sense some druid people still feel neglected and donât realise Arthur made a personal oath to leave them alone. After all, he did only make that promise to one ghost boy who then ascended. Leaving them alone is about as bad as saying âstay hidden in the forests, youâre still not welcome in the city. My fatherâs rules are still in place and Iâm not in a great rush to change themâ. Ruadan has volunteered himself to rise up and join Morgana because it seems in three years Arthur has kept Camelot very much the same as before. We donât see any shots of the lower town where cloaked people are happily wandering around the market. Mordred appears to be the exception to a druidâs natural power, explosive when emotional, which is why he is selected by destiny/fate/prophecy to be Arthurâs doom.
Love Gwen calling Gaius out on his bull. Sassy Sue over here! And then she goes and replies to Gaius saying about Utherâs deeds âheâs long deadâ. Really, Gwen? I thought Uther went on his hols! Thanks for that!
If this was higher rated, the pipe Arthur and Merlin crawled up would NOT be just a compost chute for rotting veg. Donât gag, Merlin, it could have been waaaaaay worse. Also, doesnât Merlin looking smashing in leathers?
Morgana and Mordredâs reunion is actually kind of gorgeous. I love Mordredâs outfit. Enjoy it now, because he will soon adopt the tradition of the knights never wearing barely anything casual for the rest of their careers. Morganaâs madness is starting to kick in and Mordredâs calmness in contrast is amazing. I so so wish there was more of their relationship shown throughout the show. Morgana could have jumped right into smother-mother mode when seeing him again, like heâs her long lost son, then when she realises he was with the group that lost Arthur, her cold and crazy flip in behaviour could have been so much more impactful.
Petty point, but in keeping with another tradition of the show, all the men can go weeks without growing a millimeter of stubble.
Again, going back to the Dragonlord thing, why is the fact Aithusa was missing and is now on Morganaâs side, hardly recognises Merlin and is crippled in growth totally glossed over, and Merlin is never seen calling the dragon later at any point to discuss this. Merlin could have commanded Aithusa to fly away and find Killi or meet him somewhere and Aithusa could not refuse. Then he wouldnât help Morgana anymore. In three years, Merlin has never once wanted to hang out with the baby dragon he hatched and misses him when heâs not coming to call for some reason? No wonder Aithusa canât speak, he likely needed education from Kilgharrah and the old dude sodded off!
So, dragon breath makes you immune to stab wounds but they can still hurt you, good to know. Merlin, take the hint, youâre indestructible, my dude.
There are quite a few fanfics out there Iâve read trying to fix the fact everyone forgets Merlin. Of course, we donât know what happened after the scene ends with the alien going away, the others may not have left the caves until Merlin came out, but the fact remains this bit made many people mad because it makes it look like no-one came back to find Merlin, not Gwaine or otherwise. This is a theme that at least the show keeps consistent where they donât with much other things but I get this episode in particular, as I keep coining, set âthree years onâ, no one is behaving the way they should. Mordred dragged an injured Arthur to the knights; Merlin isnât with them. No one asks Mordred about it or heads in the direction to check. They all go. We could say Mordred didnât say anything because he knew Merlin would meet the Diamir but thatâs not canon. I love Mordred, heâs one of my favourites because his character in both this show and in the legends is so complex, itâs always hinted that he knows a lot more of his part to play in prophecy than he voices and feigns ignorance in hopes it leaves him be.
Also many a fanfic has been written about Mordred/Merlin and it usually starts from the ending scene where Merlin helps Mordred with his cape. I mean, not gonna lie, this ship intrigues me too lol.
The face drop thing again. At this point for new viewers I donât know if this was meant to insinuate that Mordred was lying to Merlin just now and that heâs evil. But it doesnât come across as a âdrop of good actâ face. More like a âitâs exhausting to be cheerfulâ face. Mordred does this a lot like I said before. I know, because I think we all do it. We put on a front, a small smile for others but as soon as they leave, our faces drop. It doesnât necessarily mean we are false. Mordred has got âresting depressed faceâ and who can blame him after all heâs been through in his young life.
âIf Arthur knew you had magic, things would be differentâ, now this is an interesting quote from Merlin. He still feels that years of friendship with Arthur would lead to his death if Arthur discovered his magic. Now heâs telling someone who is basically himself the day he first arrived in Camelot the same stuff Gaius told him. But the difference SHOULD be that Arthur SHOULD already remember that Mordred is a druid. Unless he doesnât think that druids and other sorcerers are the same, he did once promise a ghost he would leave the druids alone, but thatâs different from treating them like other humans allowed in his kingdom. The druids still think Arthur is punishing them because heâs leaving them to it. If Mordred was a known druid and then knighted in front of everyone, that should be a major turning point! It still causes problems for Merlin because he still thinks Mordred will kill Arthur unless he is stopped, never mind like Gaius says later âif he is Arthurâs doom why did he save his lifeâ, Merlin doesnât have an answer but is still stubborn on the subject. Again, heâs so changed now. The point is, what does this mean for the show and the story, if Arthur has just knighted a young man who he still doesnât show signs of recognising as the magic boy he once helped get out of Camelot? Are Mordred and Merlin stalemates? Does this make the situation unfair for Merlin, again, being lower ranked than a man Arthurâs just met? Would having Mordred close mean Merlin could become a Gaius figure to him and be âthe worstâ by gaslighting him OR help him better his magic?
Last point, I feel Arthur is knighting Mordred too soon. Yes, he did the king a great service, saving his life and stabbing the evil. In this time though, Mordred is only 18/19 and Arthur has never seen him swing a sword. At least with the others, he knew them longer and had seen them fight. Surely his new way of running an army is not âknight them now, train them laterâ. Let Mordred be a squire and train with the big lads for a while and then move the actual knighting scene to a later episode where they give him armour and the red cape. Spoilers, but not big, Mordred will not have his first outing with the others until episode 5 or something. So why do things backwards and give him a frigginâ seat at the round table??
Sorry this got so long, now Iâm off to find more Merlin/Mordred fanfiction haha. Looking forward to the Halloween themed episode next week, despite season 5 being the lowest in my tier, Death song of Uther P is the best of the throw away episodes đ Again, glad to have you guys back.
5th September 2021 @ 2:25 pm
“During Merlinâs rushing through the castle calling out, we could have seen several few second cuts in between to someone else running around too, a swish of red fabric, the jewel from a circlet bouncing on their head as they move. When Merlin catches up with Arthur and we realise heâs been trying to find Gwen and she finally appears, it could have been a nice little hint of Gwenâs personality and conduct as queen to show that she had been doing something else in the lower town dressed in dull clothing, lost track of time, and was racing back to the castle to get changed into formal wear to get to the meeting as a parallel to Merlin rushing around trying to find her. When Arthur walks her into the room, she could have discreetly been trying to get her breathing and lady-like decorum under control.”
I absolutely love this re-writing, I can already see it in my mind’s eye! It would have been lovely, and would have instantly established Gwen as the person we know and love, despite her elevated station. As it is, I’m not a fan of this opening sequence, because it gives a feel of “Gwen is all important now and doesn’t care if she’s late or not, and Merlin is still the servant that runs after everything”. It’s even more pronounced when they walk into the great hall, Arthur and Gwen step in step, and Merlin is walking step in step with Sefa, a lovely girl, but a new servant – which also gives an impression that Merlin is in the same position as a young girl that only started working a week ago. And it seems unfair to him.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw the potential of Merlin/Mordred in the cloak unclasping scene! Heck, I didn’t just start searching for fanfic after I saw that, I WROTE it instead of sleeping đ It came out rather angsty, though, as everything in season 5 is.
5th September 2021 @ 4:53 pm
Ooh Iâd love to read more Mordred/Merlin fiction if I may đ
5th September 2021 @ 8:14 pm
Okay so here’s mine but please be warned that it’s angsty đ https://archiveofourown.org/works/33660481
8th September 2021 @ 6:24 pm
Thanks! The angstier the better đ
5th September 2021 @ 5:50 pm
To paraphrase the mad hatter, Gwen used to much muchier, sheâs lost her muchness. –
That’s an excellent way of expressing season 5 Gwen. True but sad.
just donât keep them stuck saying the same stuff to each other like they could be in season 2. There is no development or progression with anyoneâs relationships anymore, and it wonât get better, at least to me. –
I’ve moaned about this since season 2 and it’s still the same. I think they thought they’d found a successful recipe to express their friendship dynamic and banter amused audiences. But by now it’s a cold cup of tea and leaves me longing to see their relationship growing. Perhaps this goes along with the lack of ageing in Arthur and Merlin. They don’t necessarily need beards – but show us that their relationship has moved on and that might already do the trick.
The most annoying thing is that Merlin lets them both sleep awkwardly trapped in the net ALL NIGHT, where he could just look away from Arthur and use magic to snap the rope. –
Since I myself have never even considered that solution (and I feel kind of stupid now because it seems obvious), could it be that Merlin just didn’t think of it? But it might be symptomatic of his passivity in any case.
7th September 2021 @ 12:38 pm
–The most annoying thing is that Merlin lets them both sleep awkwardly trapped in the net ALL NIGHT, where he could just look away from Arthur and use magic to snap the rope. â
Since I myself have never even considered that solution (and I feel kind of stupid now because it seems obvious), could it be that Merlin just didnât think of it? But it might be symptomatic of his passivity in any case.–
oh my… same! literally never occured to me. and it would be a thousand times easier to defend than so many of the weird things that Merlin does by magic. it’s an old net.. who knows how long it’s been out here… see? the ropes are frayed…
wow… Mind. Blown.
hahahaha
M Xx
7th September 2021 @ 1:53 pm
–A line here or there from some stuck-up courtier to Gwen whilst Arthur and Merlin went off to Ismere would have done.–
they were never going to shuffle Gwen off to the side with a babe, but I completely agree, that there would be multiple ways to show and justify it, without much effort. Either, as you mention, have people in the castle note the fact that she’s not pregnant, and a commoner, and not following the rules of what queens are meant to be doing… or alternatively, have Gwen be super active and super busy, show that she is too busy for children right now, rather than just including her in one meeting and point at a map and go ‘look! west!’ because everyone else in that meeting is an idiot… lol and then (SPOILERS!!!!) you could show that having children is something she’s thinking about in the next couple of years, but then the whole evil!gwen thing happens and scarpers those plans. That would have worked fine, without needing to change any of your episodes
–When Merlin catches up with Arthur and we realise heâs been trying to find Gwen and she finally appears, it could have been a nice little hint of Gwenâs personality and conduct as queen to show that she had been doing something else in the lower town dressed in dull clothing, lost track of time, and was racing back to the castle to get changed into formal wear to get to the meeting as a parallel to Merlin rushing around trying to find her.–
hah! That’s what I get for commenting, as I’m reading! lol but yes, exactly that! show that she is busy, doing things, and hasn’t settled into the role of a “typical queen”
–Side note, Bradley looks Gorgeous. I prefer him with this look compared to season 4, I dunno what it is, maybe the hair was weird to me then. But my god, him and Colin are two buffed up babes in this season haha.–
not side note. main note. Super Important Note. NOTE THAT TRUMPS ALL OTHER NOTES!! haha
–I like how in keeping with the tradition of a lost knight, there is an empty chair at the round table, Iâm guessing would have belonged to Lancelot.–
I just had to go back and look at the wide, to notice the empty chair.. .that’s how ridiciulously large the table is, and how way too many people are sitting at the table! urgh!
–Watching the scene with Gwen and Sefa when it first aired, I remember thinking it was all a little⊠queer-baity? I donât know, maybe I was imagining things, but when the camera focuses on Gwenâs hand of Sefaâs and then on Sefaâs flustered nervous face, it just seems to me like they were trying to hint that Sefa had some attraction to Gwen.–
I can see how it would read that way, but personally, I never thought so, mostly because from the second Sefa appears on screen it is clear that she’s going to be a villain, and/or die, so honestly I never bothered to worry about her intentions or motives really. Which I appreciate maybe isn’t fair. But that’s the problem when you so obviously code characters and repeat story lines and story patterns. You’re signalling that I shouldn’t bother worrying about this, so I don’t…
–After Arthur yells for everyone to run, Katieâs horse bucks up in her face and yet they kept it in lol.–
lol yeah, I noticed that. I think she does a masterful job of staying on that horse and the scene is super super busy, so I do understand why they didn’t do another take (outside, weather conditions, animals, several dozen supporting artists, most of your main cast… sounds like a nightmare! lol)
M Xx
4th September 2021 @ 7:49 am
I have to admit, I found this opener more entertaining than the Season 4 one. I think my major disappointments of this episode come from the knowledge of what’s to come in the future… In terms of favourite bits, I was definitely impressed with the smart-Arthur moment and I liked the ambiguity/intrigue that Mordred brings. One scene that really impresses me is the dramatic irony where Merlin witnesses Arthur ‘fall’ in the vision followed by Arthur asking if ‘he’s dead’ and subsequently saying it’s not the first time Merlin has seen a dead man. Of course, we know Merlin is worried about a different man, not the old guy.
I calculated that 8 years have passed so far from the start of the show. So each season is a new year plus the 3 years of prosperity/cop-out. That would make Arthur 28-ish, Merlin slightly younger and Mordred 20-ish. I like to think it’s neat that for the first time Colin/Bradley got to play their actual ages at the time. Apart from that I have no idea what the time jump achieved, other than us trying to join dots.
7th September 2021 @ 2:01 pm
In terms of how much time has actually passed in the show, I’ve never done a full timeline, and I’m not sure it would be possible, as we get the occassionally definitive date thrown into random episodes, and they never feel very well thought through, but I’ve always gone with each season spanning about a year (which sometimes is canonically mentioned, sometimes isn’t, so is totally debatable) and then you’ve got the year Morgana was missing, before she returns in season 3, and then the 3 year gap here.
And in my maths (again, never sat down and did this with pen and paper) episode 1 tells us it’s been 20 years of the purge, which was started by arthur’s birth / igraine’s death, and then later on we have arthur officially becoming crown prince of camelot on a significant birthday, so I always assumed that was Arthur turning 21. And Balinor fleeing Camelot, getting Hunith pregnant, before having to flee again means that Merlin in my head isn’t much more than a year younger than Arthur, and is mostly just treated younger due to how he grew up (country bumpkin, and all that)
so yeah, that’s always been my unofficial maths đ
8th September 2021 @ 6:55 pm
Little snippet in but yeah, even the whole timeline of the purge is hard to map. Uther said at the start it had been twenty years since the great dragon was captured. How long that was after the start of the purge we don’t know, coulda been weeks, coulda been months. All we know is a little while after half way of s1, we get the episode with Arthur’s 21st birthday.
So… 6 months after Arthur’s birth maybe the dragon was captured? Makes sense. To achieve the next coming years of the purge and kill all other magic things, go for the most powerful right? Then afterwards everything else is a doddle. We don’t even know when abouts in the purge Balinor left after Killi was captured, nor how long he hid with Hunith before they made a baby. It’s hurting my brain to even attempt all this Tolkien level world building! I’d peg Merlin as at least 2 years younger than Arthur. Its up to s4 where his title changes to ‘young man’. Mmh.
Another 6 months later, the end of the first series (?), marking a year gone by for the characters. Who knows whether a year skip is between season 1 and 2, but between 2 and 3, then 3 and 4 there is so that makes another 2 years. That’s 5/6 years right there. 3 year skip and we get to 9 years give or take.
9th September 2021 @ 10:27 am
–So⊠6 months after Arthurâs birth maybe the dragon was captured? Makes sense. To achieve the next coming years of the purge and kill all other magic things, go for the most powerful right?–
This made total sense to me, until I remembered that doesn’t Balinor tell us that Uther killed all the dragons, and then invited Balinor and the last dragon to Camelot under the pretense of making peace with it… only to capture it and imprision it under the castle.
Right? Or am I completely making that up?? lol
Either way, yes, the Merlin maths is difficult to do… In terms of Balinor in Ealdor, he tells the story saying that he found a good woman there, and they had a good life, but Uther couldn’t let it go, still he hunted him… so like, long enough to fall in love and feel save, but short enough for Uther to still be hunting him, and having caught up with him, so I reckon 3 months at least, 6 months at most?
again, completely made up of course… lol
4th September 2021 @ 4:09 am
Hi!
I’m so happy D&C is back! I joke with my friends at work that my “film class” is back and I am so excited!
First off, I am not surprised you both disliked these episodes so much. I am glad I got to enjoy them one last time before you ripped them apart (per usual…). I am one of those odd people who like Season 4 and 5 a lot, but I think that is because I just focus on the acting and character interactions and not the overall plot. đ€
It wasn’t until I re-watched these episodes and listened to your podcast that I realized the “peaceful” and “prosperous” years of Albian are behind us. I knew there was a jump in time, but I never thought those were the years his destiny was fulfilled and now I feel cheated that I didn’t get to see Arthur at his prime. If this was truly the best years of his reign, shouldn’t he had made some progress with accepting magic? Shouldn’t he had made peace with the druids? Since it feels like we just pick right up where we left in regards to acceptance of magic, (SPOILER) I originally just assumed Arthur never fulfilled his destiny because Merlin was destined to not listen to the dragon in the beginning.
I think you are absolutely right about the whole Gwaine and Morgana in the throne room situation. This was just a way to tell us what was going on, but it would had been nice if they had developed a subplot of Morgana being fascinated with Gwaine in Season 4 (since she plays with him then as well) and carried that on to this season.
I maybe completely off here, but I never thought Merlin could change the future or destiny. I know you mention the Crystal Cave episode (I haven’t seen it in some time), but I never thought he actually CHANGED the future. I could see how he THOUGHT he did because he stopped her from killing Uther, but we don’t see Morgana actually kill Uther in the crystals. Merlin sees everything in the crystal come to pass. I always thought Merlin has the curse of seeing the future or hearing prophecies and thinking he might have the ability to change it, but ultimately the future is set and he can’t do anything but dread the unavoidable future. Maybe that is why he is so mopey and inactive… He knows the future that is to come and can’t bring himself out of his funk to come up with a plan to stop the future since he has now realized it will come to pass no matter what he does? (Damn! That is depressing, but it is a Tragedy…)
Something that grinds my gears is the fact that Arthur says all this stuff about his men being “more than brothers” to him, but we don’t get to see any of that. The only bonding we really ever have seen is between Arthur and Merlin. We don’t even get true moments of bonding with the named/talky knights. I know in the legends Arthur is close to his knights, but in BBC Merlin, I just don’t believe it. (Sigh) We needed another season to show this…
I like this clever and intense Gwen. I agreed with whoever said earlier that she is the one that truly suffers by not having a season in between 4 & 5 to show her adjustment and growth into her new role. I only wish she continued to be clever and intense in her reign in all future episodes, but if my memory serves me right… she kind of falls out of the spotlight.
My biggest pet peeve of this episode is Arthur not remembering Mordred. Ok, maybe he doesn’t recognize him, but wouldn’t Merlin be like “Remember back when we were young and reckless and we saved that one druid kid your dad wanted to murder? Well, that’s him!” I really thought that all druids had magic, but now that everyone points out that Sefa didn’t and she was a druid’s daughter, I guess I am OK with Arthur knighting him. Although, I do agree that if Arthur had seen Mordred saving him, it would be a lot more powerful! (Also, how is Arthur NOT dead? Didn’t Morgana like snap his neck?) What I really wish they would have done with this whole knighting Mordred thing is have Arthur make a big deal out of a DRUID saving him and him knighting a DRUID and how this could be a first step to unifying the kingdom. SPOILER How much better would the eventual betrayal be if he acknowledged Mordred as a druid from the beginning?!
In regards to Mordred himself, a backstory would have been AWESOME….I do like how he is a mystery and ambiguous. I LOVE how Danuta suggests Mordred is testing Morgana when he mentions Arthur’s escape. I absolutely agree! I do think Mordred believes in Arthur, but it is kind of weird he says “Arthur is right. The love that binds us is more important than the power we wield.” When the heck did Arthur ever say that?? Maybe it was a deleted scene? It just seems like a strange thing to say.
Katie is doing AMAZING work in these episodes! She looks DERANGED when she says she wants Arthur’s head on a spike. I agree with you that Morgana being put in a random hole by a (now) random guy is a strange move. I agree that Arthur should had kept her prisoner. He could have chained her under the castle where Kilgharrah was kept. That would have been kind of cool. Uther chained his biggest magic rival under the castle and Arthur could have done the same because he is human and still makes mistakes and can’t bring himself to kill his sister. I love how betrayed Morgana looks when Mordred stabs her, but I wish she would have magic shoved him away from Arthur or something. It makes absolutely no sense that Morgana would leave her big, safe castle and go wander in the snow wounded. Wtf?
I like that the creepy alien says that Arthur is his own bane. In the end, it is Arthur’s choices that lead to his fate (or is it since earlier I said the future was set in stone. Hmm). The biggest thing being him choosing not to take active steps towards easing tension between his people and the magic community and druids…
Now for fun odds and ends and gushing:
These two episodes just gave me GOT vibes…. Onion Knight guy. Annis is a Stark with her wolf banners and furs and cold weather! Then you have Morgana as a dark version of the going mad, dragon queen…
Colin is just beautiful this entire season, but I agree they needed to age him and Bradley a little. I would have NOT complained if Colin had a little scruff. đ
I DO NOT like when Annis calls Merlin Arthur’s fool. I’m sorry, but hasn’t she met Arthur and Merlin before? Also, does he LOOK like a fool? I do appreciate him being a good sport and basically just showing them all up. Someone said that is really Colin juggling…. REALLY? I’m even more in loved with it then…
Love how Arthur is being such a turd about the juggling and says they “can’t refuse the queen.” His expressions are so great and Leon is clearly enjoying it as well.
I cannot believe you just passed over my MOST FAVORITE quote/scene from this whole season and maybe this whole show!
“If Morgana doesn’t kill you, I will!”
“Threatening a king is treason, Merlin.”
“What about threatening an ASS?”
“Heard that!”
I just love Colin’s delivery of “ass”! It makes me literally laugh out loud every time! I feel like this is the moment that best exemplifies their relationship. They are not servant and king. They are best buds! The BEST of buds!
Arthur and Merlin basically cuddle in the woods! Remember way back when Arthur scoffed at sharing a bed with Merlin!? Bah!
“You’re right, we won’t waste those apples, we’ll put them in a pie.” Merlin’s ramblings about food đ€Ł
I love their escape from the slave traders and the wink that Arthur gives Merlin. đ„°
“I love your optimism.”
The garbage and carrot in the hair scene is just good, clean humor.
5th September 2021 @ 2:43 pm
“I like that the creepy alien says that Arthur is his own bane. In the end, it is Arthurâs choices that lead to his fate (or is it since earlier I said the future was set in stone. Hmm).”
This is a really interesting thing about this show, I think – it’s that it seems to show that the more you actually believe in destiny/fate, the less you’re able to change it. As you pointed out, and I agree a lot, Merlin doesn’t really change anything in that episode with the Crystal Cave. It’s just a classic example of seeing scraps of the future and interpreting it in a totally different way (much like Oedipus learns he’s going to kill his father and marry his mother, so he leaves his family home… which turns out to be his adopted family home). But Arthur, who hasn’t been fed the whole destiny talk, and makes his own choices without knowing the future, seems to have more freedom. Even with the sword in the stone scene, Merlin makes up the whole legend to prove to Arthur that he was destined to be Camelot’s king – and Arthur complies, but nobody would convince me that he does so because he heard some story about Bruta. It’s because he trusts Merlin, and he doesn’t really know what’s going on with the sword, but he makes a choice for Merlin, not for destiny. And it works. Okay, I don’t know where I was going with all that, but hopefully, you get my point đ
“I DO NOT like when Annis calls Merlin Arthurâs fool. Iâm sorry, but hasnât she met Arthur and Merlin before?”
To be fair, doesn’t the whole “Annis takes Merlin for a fool” thing exist because last time she saw him, he sneaked into her tent in the middle of the night after Arthur and Arthur only managed to save his neck because he said Merlin was a simple-minded fool and didn’t know what he was doing? I always took Annis’ words to be a throwback to that scene. It sounds cruel, sure, but she has no reason to believe that Merlin is anything else than Arthur’s fool.
Last note, I also do like season 4 and 5! They are not my favorite in the series (season 2 is), but I’m definitely not as frustrated with them as many people here, and I think they have many interesting themes!
5th September 2021 @ 6:03 pm
This is a really interesting thing about this show, I think â itâs that it seems to show that the more you actually believe in destiny/fate, the less youâre able to change it. –
I think you might be absolutely spot on there. I think it is best exemplified by Merlin and Arthur’s respective vows. “I swear I will rescue my men or die trying.” “I swear I will protect you or die at your side.” SPOILER In the end, it will only be Arthur that will keep his vow because he doesn’t care or know about destiny. Only about the relationships and people he’s responsible for. Reminds me of: The love that binds us is more important than the power we wield.
5th September 2021 @ 8:19 pm
Yes! Mordred’s quote fits into that really well!
6th September 2021 @ 12:59 am
-This is a really interesting thing about this show, I think â itâs that it seems to show that the more you actually believe in destiny/fate, the less youâre able to change it. –
Yes! Or are you less likely to believe you are able to change it? Destiny and prophecies are such tricky and slimy things. I definitely feel my own thoughts and beliefs about seeing the future and destiny/free will bubbling up to the surface. I would love to think I have free will and I create my destiny, but I also believe whatever needs to happen will happen. If itâs meant to be, it will be. Right now, I am living in blissful ignorance of my future and can go about believing my actions make a huge difference on my life. If I go and have my future âread,â that blindfold or ignorance is ripped away and I can see how my actions are already sewn into the fabric of the future. I am sure that was all rambling nonsense, but I guess I am trying to say free will and destiny seems to be weaved in together????
So, Itâs fitting Arthurâs Bane is âhimselfâ since he is the one with âfree willâ and Merlin getâs the whole grim ânot even you can stop the circle of doomâ prophecy because he is the destiny portion.
I am convinced none of that makes senseâŠ. But hell I tried đđ€Ł
6th September 2021 @ 2:11 pm
You’re totally making sense! I get it đ Like, the whole matter is super complex and much ink has been spilled by philosophers on the issue of free will and fate (or providence) – but from an individual perspective, not knowing gives you indeed a sense of freedom.
That’s why poor Merlin is so reluctant to get to know the future, but it keeps being thrust upon him… my poor baby đ
6th September 2021 @ 3:37 pm
Yes! Yes! Thank you for being able to use words better than me! đ€Ș
Poor MerlinâŠ. Arenât there legends where he goes mad? Perhaps this is the start of thatâŠ.
6th September 2021 @ 9:18 pm
This is all really really fascinating. I think itâs interesting we all refer to it as fate now – because Iâve just noticed that I really do in my head! Itâs like itâs all suddenly become set in stone . In fact, I believe the tag line for season 5 was The Die is Cast? Or something like that? But who casts the die is the question. Is it Merlin, or Arthur?
This makes me think about what you said in your comment, Danuta, about Arthur being an advocate for humanity. Also, back in the Eye of the Phoenix Merlin was discussed and being a Knight of Magic like Arthur is a Knight of Humanity, and Camelot. Iâve personally always quite liked that Arthurâs bane is himself. By the time he accepts magic, which in someways seems to be the final puzzle piece to Albion, itâs too late and the damage is done. Itâs the one lapse in his humanity – the one blind spot. Ironically and devastatingly, his one hatred is his the person he loves the most: Merlin. And he doesnât even know it.
Is Merlin still a Knight of Magic, though? Certainly not in episode 5 (oh the dread in anticipation of that scene). Is he a purely a Knight against fate, more than anything? Even more than a Knight of Destiny, which he once could have been said to have been I think.
Iâm going to join the club in saying that I donât think Iâve made sense there and gone on a complete tangent, but I wanted to join in on the interesting conversation haha!
8th September 2021 @ 1:18 am
Iâve personally always quite liked that Arthurâs bane is himself. By the time he accepts magic, which in someways seems to be the final puzzle piece to Albion, itâs too late and the damage is done. Itâs the one lapse in his humanity â the one blind spot. Ironically and devastatingly, his one hatred is his the person he loves the most: Merlin. And he doesnât even know it.
THIS!!! THIS is absolutely beautiful and so spot on! Well done! đđ»đđ»đđ» You just broke my heart all over again!
6th September 2021 @ 1:50 am
Oh! I forgot to address you reminding me that Arthur called Merlin a simple-minded fool so Annis wouldnât kill him last time they metâŠ. Ok fair but still! Iâm very protective of my Merlin and that comment just makes the mother hen in me come out!
7th September 2021 @ 12:02 pm
your comment did make me realise that I didn’t express myself very well on podcast in regards to that because yes, she’s referring to the last time she met Merlin, and how Arthur called him his fool, and that’s the only real meeting her and Merlin have had. And the fact that Arthur isn’t sure whether she’d grant passage to him and his men also demonstrated that while they are allies, they haven’t exactly been pen palls in the three years we missed, so for her to only remember ‘Merlin the Fool’ is also understandable. But yes, I also go ‘okay, fair, but still!!’, which is really what I meant when I said that it doesn’t make her look good, as it’s a rude throwaway comment that makes her look like a bit of a bully, and I don’t want Lindsay Duncan to be anything but the perfect godess that she is!! lol
M Xx
5th September 2021 @ 6:16 pm
I really thought that all druids had magic, but now that everyone points out that Sefa didnât and she was a druidâs daughter, I guess I am OK with Arthur knighting him. Although, I do agree that if Arthur had seen Mordred saving him, it would be a lot more powerful! (Also, how is Arthur NOT dead? Didnât Morgana like snap his neck?) What I really wish they would have done with this whole knighting Mordred thing is have Arthur make a big deal out of a DRUID saving him and him knighting a DRUID and how this could be a first step to unifying the kingdom. SPOILER How much better would the eventual betrayal be if he acknowledged Mordred as a druid from the beginning?! –
The problem is that we have quite clearly been told on many occasions that druids were hunted and killed during the Purge. If they don’t all have magic, what was Uther’s justification for wiping out entire villages? In 2.3 he even hints hunts down people who are suspected of associating with druids. Or was he misinformed and thought they all had magic by default and didn’t care enough to check? Or that living anywhere near a magic user corrupted you even if you didn’t have powers yourself.
You know, I’ve just realised that the entire Purge thing reminds me so much of Sleeping beauty where the king destroys all spindles and spinning wheels to protect his daughter. Maybe Uther was trying to protect Arthur from magic as he was already born of magic and thereby more vulnerable? I guess that makes Merlin (or Morgana?) kind of into the evil fairy that gives him a spindle so that he pricks his finger and falls asleep for a hundred years to be awoken again one day. And there’s another parallel!
Sorry, going off track there.
But I love your suggestion that Arthur could have made Mordred a knight despite being a druid thereby honouring his pledge to the ghost child. If only…
6th September 2021 @ 1:43 am
Number 123,495 reason why the show should have done more world building!!
I definitely think Uther would just persecute anyone having even the slightest chance of having any magical abilities (except Gaius of courseâŠ) which would mean just lumping the druids (and dragon lords) all together regardless of knowing they are not all magical. Surely he would knowâŠ.after all, Nimue was his friend before Arthurâs birth.
I never thought of Uther using the Purge as a way to protect Arthur from magic. I always thought his heart was full of guilt and hate (for himself and magic) and so he took his vengefulness way too far. But that is an interesting rabbit hole to get lost downâŠ
7th September 2021 @ 2:11 pm
Love being a ‘film class’ đ that’s like when someone in “normal” life catches you writing/editing/reading fanfic and you’re like ‘ooooh, me and my friends have an online reading and writing club…’ hahaha
— I originally just assumed Arthur never fulfilled his destiny because Merlin was destined to not listen to the dragon in the beginning.–
this will definitely be most of what I assume our ‘Full Show Round Up’ will be about…. Basically WHAT HAPPENED??? lol
–I just love Colinâs delivery of âassâ! It makes me literally laugh out loud every time!–
honestly, I think we mostly didn’t talk about that in the podcast, because we talked about while we were taking our notes lol we try to talk as little as possible while we re-watch and take notes, because either we have conversations that we then try to repeat and don’t sound spontaneous anymore, or we get wrapped up in trying to figure out little details, so yeah, we do our best to watch in silence lol the thing that gets me with that exchange actually, is the bit where Colin basically shouts ASS (and yes, it’s super funny, I totally agree) and then Arthur goes ‘I heard that!’ and it’s like… well, of course you did! he purposfully said it really loudly!!! lol
–I love their escape from the slave traders and the wink that Arthur gives Merlin. đ„°–
the wink is THE BEST!!!
M Xx
3rd September 2021 @ 2:01 pm
Iâm really excited that destiny and chicken is back! Unfortunately I donât know how much I will be able to interact as I will be starting univesity next week. No idea how much free time I will have left. Probably not a lot, which Iâm really sad about as I loved interacting with everyone last season.
But I collected some notes for these two episodes, so here we go again đ
I was surprised by how upset this episode made you. Then I realized how little attention I payed to the actual plot if this episode. Itâs almost impossible to follow and I forgot what they were doing most of the time.
I think this could have been quite a good episode if they had simplified everything, if they didnât want to do this absurd amount of worldbuilding and wanting to establish so much for this whole season. They tried doing to much and I donât think a casual watcher remembered even half of what this episode tried to tell you. Hell, not even I remember most of what happened and I made notes.
I was mainly distracted by all the character and relationship stuff going on. The only thing I ended up paying a lot of attention to is Merlinâs moping, which really isnât the best part of these episodes. The plot of this episode just seems insignificant looking at the prospect of doom from the prophecy. And Merlin communicated that sentiment through his moping.
Merlin and Arthur together, however, weâre delightful as always and weâre given some beautiful moments. Especially Bradleyâs performance stood out to me. He put so much into his eyes, especially during those âcampfireâ scenes I felt like I could see their entire relationship reflected in them. They kept looking at each other with so much adoration, it made me soft.
But also other scenes, like his reaction to Merlinâs juggling, are glorious. Is there a reason to have Merlin juggle this episode? No. But Iâm not complaining, that scene is delightful.
Iâm really upset about the fact that all we get of those years of prosperity is a two second comment. I would have loved to see what that is like. I would have loved to at least know what exactly that means. It would have so beautiful to see Arthur really succeeding at being a king.
They donât succeed to wrap all the loose ends up anyway, so the lost time wouldnât hurt the season anymore than it already is right now.
The mood shifts in these two episodes are quiteâŠsomething.
The thing is, I love the comedy beats in this. I think theyâre really funny. However, almost every time they intruded whatever else was going on before that.
The mood shifts are so harsh and immediately pull you out of a scene. These episodes are messy enough, the mood shifts make that even more visible. They were so irritating. Usually Merlin is really good at mood shifts, but they just interrupted the flow of this episode. The brutal edit made it impossible for the rest to handle those shifts.
Iâm a bit confused by how the show portrays Mordred by the end. They make it look like Mordred still has some kind of plan. It gives me the âsmirky smirkyâ vibes of earlier Morgana. However, looking at this knowing the rough path of how the season will go, I do think Mordredâs sentiment is genuine. I think he actually likes Arthur and believes in him. So the way this episode frames him, especially in his last scene, is very confusing.
When it comes to the never ending cycle of fate, I interpreted it that no matter what Merlin does, no matter what âtimelineâ weâre in, Arthur will eventually fail. So if Merlin would have decided to do something differently, the end result would have been the same. There are different prophecies and it was said that you can change your own fate, so there are several âfatesâ. Maybe Iâm watching too much Marvel content lately and I just immediately assume fantasy worlds have potential different timelines/dimensions, but thatâs just what I immediately thought of.
Some smaller comments:
âIf it was you who disappeared, Merlin, I wouldnât bother.â Arthur said, like a liar, having all of Camelot searched for him before, and almost getting himself killed in that very episode to go after Merlin.
Itâs still amazing to me with how much favor Merlin is treated. Some of the soldiers, they might even be knights, have to travel by foot, while Merlin gets his own horse.
Why are they shirtless in that cave? Just because theyâre slaves? they surely could wear some kind of shirt. And it appears to be cold in there as you can see their breath? It makes no sense.
Why donât Mordred and Merlin communicate in their heads like they used to? It would make things so much easier instead of Mordred sneaking around his slave trader colleagues.
Anyway Iâm already sad and I want to see Merlin smile more but I know that this season will make me deeply smile deprived. I hate tragedy so this season will be a blast for me :)))
4th September 2021 @ 7:08 pm
“Iâm a bit confused by how the show portrays Mordred by the end. They make it look like Mordred still has some kind of plan. It gives me the âsmirky smirkyâ vibes of earlier Morgana. However, looking at this knowing the rough path of how the season will go, I do think Mordredâs sentiment is genuine. I think he actually likes Arthur and believes in him. So the way this episode frames him, especially in his last scene, is very confusing. ”
– I feel exactly the same. I think ambiguity is good, but this felt like the writers didn’t know either, at least to my mind.
“Why are they shirtless in that cave? Just because theyâre slaves? they surely could wear some kind of shirt. And it appears to be cold in there as you can see their breath? It makes no sense. ”
– I assumed at first that it was justified by “well digging is hard work so you get hot,” but then they were sleeping on bare stone which must surely be freezing! As you say, it makes no sense.
7th September 2021 @ 11:42 am
also surely you take your shirt off to dig, because you don’t want it to get disgustingly sweaty, seeing as it’s your only piece of clothing. but then at night you put it on to sleep… right??? :;facepalm::
5th September 2021 @ 6:22 pm
I want to see Merlin smile more but I know that this season will make me deeply smile deprived. –
You and me both. I’m in it for Colin’s smile. âș
6th September 2021 @ 1:52 am
His smile is greatâŠ.but I also love buff sad Colin⊠đ€·đŒââïž
6th September 2021 @ 1:55 am
But dark, buff, sad ColinâŠ.. is great đ bad boy vibes??
6th September 2021 @ 2:33 am
totally didn’t mean to reply twice… đ€Šââïž
6th September 2021 @ 10:24 pm
Love that you did though. đ I see you very much care for this new Merlin.
8th September 2021 @ 1:22 am
đ€Łđ busted! đ
3rd September 2021 @ 4:18 am
Generally agree with the sentiments that this leaves a lot to be desired, but i can’t say I’m surprised or even particularly mad – I officially never met a season opener of Merlin that I loved – S1 of course is charming for obvious reasons, but 2 is boring; and 3-5 are overstuffed and overdramatic. So I came in with low expectations in that sense.
I also don’t necessarily care about things like the Saxons. I didn’t come to this show with a lot of Arthurian background, and it’s probably viewers like me that you have to blame for the abysmal approach of the BBC here- I’m really there for the characters; and can only tell you what’s incorrect after listening to your podcast đ
Also, am I the only one who interpreted Arthur as not remembering Mordred period? Like he didn’t question magic or lack thereof…because he simply didn’t remember him? It has been 8-9 years, and he was less pivotal to Merlin and Morgana, so I feel like it’s possible he forgot him. But it’s also possible I just missed something in that scene to say otherwise.
The biggest issue for me, as others have pointed out already, is the time jump – it’s just handled so poorly. I am curious what you guys think about shows using this device generally and whether it ever can be successfully (I’m rewatching How I met Your Mother, and obviously that is a show that used time jumping at the end much to the chagrin of fans). I don’t necessarily know that there is a *full* season of plot between end of s4 and this – realistically we werent getting 13 episodes of fan service of them in happy times. BUT – as folks have said, there is a lot missing to the story re: Morgana and Aithusa. That alone is probably a three episode arc! Instead it feels inconsistent and confusing (if she can connect so well with aithusa, why is merlin that impressive?)
I’m sort of fascinated by Merlin in these episodes and go back and forth on whether he is well set up for S5. Generally I headcanon the ambiguity of whether he is a do-gooder or a manipulator as part of his own internal struggles. Mordred is a clear reflection of him and I think it plays nicely into all the questions of whether he is helping or hurting arthur or some mixture of both. His impotency and gloom is sort of dumb, but as you touched on, this whole episode feels like the characters were given a heads up that the series was ending so it was time to forget everything they know about beating Morgana đ which plays into a larger merlin problem that im sure you’ll cover at the end, about how the plot lurches along.
thanks for a fun episode!
7th September 2021 @ 6:42 pm
–Also, am I the only one who interpreted Arthur as not remembering Mordred period? Like he didnât question magic or lack thereofâŠbecause he simply didnât remember him? It has been 8-9 years, and he was less pivotal to Merlin and Morgana, so I feel like itâs possible he forgot him. But itâs also possible I just missed something in that scene to say otherwise.–
I think you’re right, it’s entirely possible. there’s a number of people in the comments here questioning why arthur didn’t remember mordred at all, or why he didn’t remember and/or question mordred about having magic, and then people pointing out that arthur never saw mordred do magic, and that (as of S5) not all druids have magic so… I definitely don’t think you missed anything, the episode is very messy with the facts, but also you are right, it’s been literally 10 years for Arthur and he’s met A LOT of people, and while the kid he rescued was super memorable to us, it may not be as memorable to Arthur. And yeah, he only met him in the last 10 minutes of that episode, he didn’t spend multiple days with him…. someone above also wondered whether Merlin wouldn’t point out to arthur that ‘this is the kid that uther wanted to kill, the druid boy, but then we saved him… remember?’ but considering Merlin ends the episode saying ‘If Arthur found out about your magic, things would be different…’ clearly he has not told arthur, and has no intention of doing so now.
However love that by self admission, we now get to blame all Saxon-ness on you! No take backs!! haha
M Xx
10th September 2021 @ 1:43 am
“However love that by self admission, we now get to blame all Saxon-ness on you! No take backs!! haha”
Happy that my inadequate American education can be of service to you đ
2nd September 2021 @ 9:57 pm
I agree with you entirely on this episode, and I wish I didnât. Usually I feel like the most critical episodes of D&C are funny and a sort of âhey BBC Merlin, we love you but what the heck happened here?â â the TV criticism version of your best friend saying stupid things while drunk. This was just sad. Thatâs not a criticism of you, but rather a reflection of how un-Merlin the season 5 opener feels. This has a few comic beats that I enjoy (watching Merlin juggle, the scene after when Arthur throws something to Merlin and he canât catch it), but otherwise I just didnât feel like I was watching an episode of Merlin. It was so odd. I think itâs the first time Iâve actively disliked Merlin himself, which made me very uncomfortable; I donât want him to kill Mordred, but it also makes no sense whatsoever that he doesnât. When heâs trying to convince Arthur to turn back I feel as frustrated with him as Arthur. Then again I also felt annoyed with Arthur because surely he knows by now that when Merlin is THIS spooked itâs a legit bad sign? Thereâs so little consistency, itâs not just a season reset but outright amnesia when it comes to previous seasons. The knights are there but not really being all that knight-y most of the time, which makes me sad. During seasons 1, 2 and (mostly) 3 I was watching mostly thinking âthis show has so many problems I didnât notice when I was a preteen, but man itâs still fun/charming/heartwarming.â For chunks of season 4 I was less charmed but at least the problems were plot/overarching story issues rather than serious character issues for me. But these episodes lacked most of what I love about the show even when they were ostensibly doing it. (Also, the Diamir is utterly horrifying. What the actual heck is that CGI?!)
I started making notes â on stuff like how I wouldnât mind the Round Table not fitting properly in the throne room if I thought it was a deliberate thing and I nearly convinced myself it was on purpose because I associate the throne room so much with Uther and so itâs nearly a good metaphor, Arthur still stuck in Utherâs shadow but making a valiant if sometimes unsuccessful attempt too rule his own way â but I lost the motivation halfway through because why do any of these details matter when the showrunning was so abysmal? Clearly the writers didnât give a shit about the Round Table, so why should I?
Sidenote: I havenât kept up with reading comments because I fell off the bandwagon in s4 so badly and only just caught up on watching/listening, but you said people were looking forward to Poetry&Chicken â that reminded me of the time I tried to explain Poetry&Chicken to my mum and she was utterly confused. I should try to write more Merlin sonnets though. Those were fun. I rarely write anything in a strict metre so I do feel a tad self-conscious that all the fandom-related stuff Iâve written is so sub par but itâs a fun challenge, so I shall see if I can come up with anything for these episodes just to keep that weird phenomenon going.
4th September 2021 @ 7:27 pm
EsmĂ©, may I just say how much I enjoy your sonnets. They inspired me to try writing sonnets for the first time ever! It is no easy thing, but so satisfying to complete. So, thereâs that, just fyi đ
5th September 2021 @ 5:58 pm
Thank you! Yes, it’s so satisfying when you finally make it work. I just reread some of the Poetry&Chicken submissions and found yours: “the long shadows cast by their brilliant light” is such good symbolism – the people who make you the happiest simultaneously have the power to hurt you the worst, and it’s the perfect imagery for Morgana’s envy and bitterness growing as Arthur gets more successful.
18th September 2021 @ 3:05 am
Thank you!! Hooray for poetry!
5th September 2021 @ 6:35 pm
I think itâs the first time Iâve actively disliked Merlin himself, which made me very uncomfortable; I donât want him to kill Mordred, but it also makes no sense whatsoever that he doesnât. …But these episodes lacked most of what I love about the show even when they were ostensibly doing it.-
I think you’ve nicely encapsulated how I feel about season 5 although the First time I ever really disliked Merlin was during the sword in the stone scene because he was so manipulative and his actions didn’t speak of believing in Arthur at all but rather in himself having to cook up some story to give Arthur the ability to be a good king. Anyway, I’ve ranted enough about this before. But yeah, at least let Merlin take action and take out Mordred instead of just mope. The season feels so unlike the rest of Merlin because although we still see someone looking like him on the screen, he has changed into someone almost unrecognisable in behaviour and outlook. His banter with Arthur is consistent but irrelevant here. And the three year gap means that we couldn’t see what happened to Merlin to change him quite so much. That’s what’s lacking for me, the actual character of Merlin.
7th September 2021 @ 12:46 pm
Yes, I agree with you a lot here. I also found Merlin… difficult in the sword in the stone. I’m not sure I’d say I actively disliked him because I understood the motivation for the manipulation, but still, it’s a hard watch.
It’s frustrating because I’m happy for Merlin to be cynical, self-hating, and to utterly fail at what he’s trying to do so long as the writers make clear why and how that’s the case. Colin’s acting sells me on it in the moment most of the time but here he was given so little to work with… and like you say, the three-year gap is being expected to explain away far too much.
2nd September 2021 @ 3:28 pm
Glad to be hyperfixiating on writing those comments as soon as the podcast comes out again đ
Upon a rewatch, I liked this double opener more than I thought I would. Of course, the biggest bane (haha) of it is the cursed 3-year gap. In my perfect world, Merlin would have 6 seasons, and one of them would be taking place in that gap, taking some of the plotlines from the canon season 5, expanding the underdeveloped plots (Aithusa!!! Morgana in a well!!!) and leaving some more space for the Mordred plotline. The change in the characters is just too jarring, especially so we’ve been used to 1-year gaps at most.
But given how it is, I don’t really have as many problems with this double (as per usual, I guess).
I don’t think the prophecy from this episode is a new one, just a reminder of an old prophecy. I only think they phrased it unfortunately. After all, Mordred was supposed to kill Arthur one day right from the first season, according to the dragon. It’s plausible that someone who’s not a dragon would phrase that prophecy differently, because he probably comes from a different tradition. I don’t get the “neverending cycle of fate” either, though.
And I’m also really glad they DON’T hark back to “you should have killed Mordred in s1” – because, as far as I remember, the takeaway from that episode was that Merlin did the right thing. It was a triumph of choice/free will/future not set in stone over fate/destiny. And I think Arthur’s Bane is really falling into that theme: everyone is so fixated on Mordred being Arthur’s bane, and on fate, but it’s Arthur’s choices that are going to bring about his doom in the end – but, as Arthur says in the conversation with Merlin in the second part, it’s not important if he’s going to die, as long as he did the right thing. Both the Diamair and Arthur in this episode are advocates for choice/free will, while Merlin becomes an advocate for fate. Which is really interesting, because it used to be the other way round: Arthur used to be burdened by duty and thinking he has no choice (whether to fight Valiant, or marry Elena, for example) – while Merlin was the one to tell him he had a choice. Now the tables have turned and I think it’s really ironic (in a tragic sort of way).
And you said that everyone is being so passive about Morgana – but, to be honest, I can only see that in Merlin. He’s petrified with a possible tragic ending, and in a way, it’s fitting after what we saw him do in the s4 finale: he practically created Arthur’s legend, and he realizes that all too well. For people who are behind the scenes like that, fear that their good fortune might end is a constant companion. Again, I wish we saw at least some of the 3-year gap so we can see a smoother progression (or, rather, regression) of Merlin’s character. But it didn’t start now. It’s just a consequence.
What I really like is how Arthur goes about cheering Merlin up. He’s not going for “oh don’t worry, everything will be all right”, but instead, he tries for Merlin to see that his fears are, in fact, misdirected: he should be worried about Arthur not doing the right thing, not him dying. Arthur is a champion for humanity in this episode and I love it.
I actually love the juggling scene. It’s random, of course – like many things in this show – but I do love it so much, and the fact that it’s actually Colin Morgan who’s juggling is just great đ
Yes, I think one of the few things that I feel similar to you about is that exchange between Gwen and Sefa: “respect is to be earned”. I haven’t noticed it until the rewatch, to be honest, and when I did, it made me angry. No, basic human rights are not supposed to be earned and Gwen should know that!
I do like Gwen’s ruse, though. I like the fact that she’s still clever like she always used to be. What I don’t like is the framing of that scene, especially the reaction shot from Elyan and Gaius when Gwen pronounces her verdict. I just can’t help but wonder if their reaction would be quite the same if it was Arthur who did this. Like, they are expecting Gwen to be this gentle flower and are shocked when she’s a warrior queen. Something about it doesn’t sit right with me. And it’s possible that it would be better if it wasn’t for that blasted 3-year gap again. I think Gwen suffered the most because of that, because she had the most character progression to do (learning to be queen and all that), and we skipped all that. So there is this initial uncomfortable feel of “huh, did Gwen change to a ruthless person and we missed it?”
I love Alexander Vlahos. He should have more screen time, for sure. But to me, he manages to communicate his change of heart perfectly in that scene with Morgana at the table where he observes as she becomes more and more unhinged (and btw, Katie is phenomenal here). To some extent, it even feels like he’s testing her when he says they had Arthur in their grasp, but he escaped. Like he wants to see if there’s some humanity left in her. For all we know, the last time he saw her was even before Morgause brainwashed her, and she was a passionate rebel with ideas back then. No wonder Mordred would be wary around her, no doubt having heard rumors about her cruelty, but maybe not wanting to believe them. But it all turns out to be true, so he decides to leave her – in a rather ruthless way, too, as he’s a troubled young man. In general, in older Mordred, I welcome the comeback of a morally ambiguous figure, so much needed after cursed Agravaine. But it’s also a fact that some of the creepiness and ambiguity around Mordred is added by the soundtrack and camerawork. I especially noticed the way the camera lingers on Mordred’s face by the end of the two-parter, after the conversation with Merlin and the knighting ceremony. We as the BBCM viewers have been used to the Evil Smirk (TM), so the first time I watched, I caught myself on thinking “ooh, here comes the smirk!” But he doesn’t do that. The smile that he gave Merlin fades, and he looks weary, maybe worried that Merlin would never trust him? Maybe conflicted about whom to be loyal to? Maybe regretful about treating Morgana the way he did? But definitely not Evil. Love it.
As to “why didn’t Merlin stab Mordred in his sleep?” – well, at first, he WAS yelling at Arthur that he should have killed him when he had the chance. I’d like to think that it’s the conversation with Arthur, the one where he talks about doing the right thing, that softened Merlin a bit and maybe reminded him of what he used to be. Not enough to trust Mordred, though. And btw, that cloak unclasping scene is so charged with electricity they should have invented lightbulbs right there! Because I sure jumped on the Merlin/Mordred ship đ
As to the question of “how could Arthur not remember Mordred has magic, he knew he was a druid” – Arthur never saw Mordred do magic, and I don’t think all druid have magic. I mean, Sefa is a druid’s daughter, and she doesn’t seem to have any powers. So there’s that.
An isolated note: we see Ruadan pray in this episode, and that is probably the first instance in the show we see someone pray? Apart from Balinor who said a “prayer” over Arthur, which could have been a spell just as well. In any case, slightly confusing.
A soundtrack note: so actually the Keeper of the Bridge music plays when the Diamir says theyâre the last of their kind! This music played only once since The Eye of the Phoenix, with Lamia, and I was confused then. I tried to explain it by the presence of the knights in that scene (the perfect fifth, honor and such stuff). But now, it seems like itâs âan ancient and forgotten noble creatureâ music, which would be in accord with the mysterious and noble Keeper of the Bridge, but not quite with evil Lamia⊠ehh⊠I donât know⊠Of course there is one other thing which all of the three scenes have in common: Gwaineâs presence. But itâs a rather⊠overly heroic soundtrack for him. Though maybe that’s actually what they were going for, given that Gwaine will be given a very heroic tune later in the season, but I won’t say anything more, because SPOILERS.
I’m REALLY looking forward to next week. Episode 3 is probably the best in the whole season? We’ll see đ
2nd September 2021 @ 9:59 pm
“Both the Diamair and Arthur in this episode are advocates for choice/free will, while Merlin becomes an advocate for fate. Which is really interesting, because it used to be the other way round: Arthur used to be burdened by duty and thinking he has no choice (whether to fight Valiant, or marry Elena, for example) â while Merlin was the one to tell him he had a choice. Now the tables have turned and I think itâs really ironic (in a tragic sort of way). ”
I love this take! By which I mean that it makes me very sad! Well done! đ
3rd September 2021 @ 1:17 pm
Oh, usually when I write that I “love” something about BBCM, I mean that it makes my heart shatter into tiny pieces đ I sometimes like to torture myself đ
3rd September 2021 @ 10:08 am
“What I really like is how Arthur goes about cheering Merlin up. Heâs not going for âoh donât worry, everything will be all rightâ, but instead, he tries for Merlin to see that his fears are, in fact, misdirected: he should be worried about Arthur not doing the right thing, not him dying. Arthur is a champion for humanity in this episode and I love it.”
I have never thought about this before, nicely put and I love it!
3rd September 2021 @ 1:18 pm
Thank you <3
4th September 2021 @ 7:34 pm
Thats a good point you made about Mordred having not seen Morgana since he was a twelve year old and working for Alvarr. As far as we know he may have been travelling the country, surviving/hiding, been through hell. He never saw Morgana through her ‘sister of a high priestess’ level evil phase. Nothing between seeing her as a sweet unsure motherly figure and now as a full on crazy, pale, black witch ranting about wanting to see crows peck her brother’s eyes out. I mean sheesh!
And he didn’t really react too much to that. Not unless he knew what to expect upon meeting her because her rep has spread across the land over the years. Otherwise I’d expected to see more shock on his face to her reaction to him saying Arthur escaped. But maybe this is how Mordred has had to adapt to survive. His fear in the past has shattered mirrors and broken soldiers’ necks. To hide his magic, he’s needed to, as sherlock would put it, divorce himself from feelings. Or like Elsa, ‘conceal it, don’t feel it, don’t let it show.’
5th September 2021 @ 6:55 pm
And Iâm also really glad they DONâT hark back to âyou should have killed Mordred in s1â â because, as far as I remember, the takeaway from that episode was that Merlin did the right thing. It was a triumph of choice/free will/future not set in stone over fate/destiny. And I think Arthurâs Bane is really falling into that theme: everyone is so fixated on Mordred being Arthurâs bane, and on fate, but itâs Arthurâs choices that are going to bring about his doom in the end â but, as Arthur says in the conversation with Merlin in the second part, itâs not important if heâs going to die, as long as he did the right thing. Both the Diamair and Arthur in this episode are advocates for choice/free will, while Merlin becomes an advocate for fate. Which is really interesting, because it used to be the other way round: Arthur used to be burdened by duty and thinking he has no choice (whether to fight Valiant, or marry Elena, for example) â while Merlin was the one to tell him he had a choice. Now the tables have turned and I think itâs really ironic (in a tragic sort of way). â
I donât need to see the rest of this season. Just your comment above makes me cry. In a way, they do hark back to season 1 episode 8. We realise that at some point later, Merlin must have reflected that no, he was wrong to prioritise mercy and belief in being able to choose freely/redemption and ought to have killed Mordred. And isnât that a cheerful lesson to take away? Just as cheerful as Merlin this season.
he tries for Merlin to see that his fears are, in fact, misdirected: he should be worried about Arthur not doing the right thing, not him dying. Arthur is a champion for humanity in this episode and I love it. â
So, I guess Merlin had succeeded in teaching Arthur all these things and in the meantime has unlearned them himself because he thinks only one of them can afford this outlook? But Arthur is great in this and his character has progressed. So, thatâs something.
5th September 2021 @ 8:33 pm
I think the main confusion about Merlin The Show is that it’s supposed to be a family adventure, and in a show like that, we’re used to the fact that what the main character learns is what we, the viewers, are supposed to learn. But I don’t think it works like that with Merlin, especially when it spirals more and more into tragedy. Merlin’s “lessons learnt” are becoming more and more false lessons, something which will bring his downfall. I sincerely believe that we’re encouraged to adopt Arthur’s POV more and more now: that, well, even if Arthur IS and always was supposed to die by Mordred’s hand, it doesn’t matter, it would still be wrong to murder Mordred, and what we should be focusing on, is the life we have now, and not the fears for a sad future. Merlin’s tragedy was that he seemed to have it right in the beginning, but the wrong guidance made him unlearn that. Because yes, I think what you wrote its true: Merlin taught Arthur all that and unlearned it himself. And it’s very possible that it’s because he thought he couldn’t afford it, as the self-sacrificing poor little bean he is.
6th September 2021 @ 2:31 am
This talk about what the “viewer is supposed to learn” got me thinking about a podcast I listened to during the hiatus, Professor Tolkien. The podcaster is a professor of literature and actually teaches a class on Tolkien and his works. He talks about how Tolkien hated the idea of writers telling a story to teach the listener/reader a lesson. He felt his stories just came to him and they should be told for the sake of the story and not a secret agenda. He thought the reader should take from it what they will, whether that be a lesson in life or not.
I think you are absolutely right that family shows harken to the old fashioned fairy tales, which were stories that were told to teach children a lesson, but once you move into more mature content and tragedy, it is harder to see a clear cut message being told to viewers/readers/listeners. I think that is because the real world isn’t black and white and no one is purely evil or purely good. I like the idea of a story being told for the sake of the story without a lesson behind it… (which is probably why I am horrible at the Lessons Game).
6th September 2021 @ 2:17 pm
Oh hello fellow listener! I listen to Tolkien Professor too, love that podcast and how knowledgeable prof. Olsen is! đ
And yes, that’s precisely one of the reasons I love Tolkien’s writing so much – that it doesn’t even try being didactic (for example, I like Narnia too, but sometimes it DOES try to hammer you over the head with its message). As to the Lessons Game, I often cheat and submit un-learned lessons, or not learned lessons, or entirely tangential and nonsensical ones đ